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Buffalo, NY Business: "Go Get A Warrant"

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2 minutes ago, markharju said:

Wendy, I think we can protect the vulnerable, take appropriate precautions, and not have civilization collapse.

We can. But as long as “protecting the vulnerable” is seen as a liberal plot, good luck with that. Would you encourage a friend who had been drinking a little more than he should to take a taxi home? They’re probably not going to get in an accident, but sometimes it’s the day they’re just filled enough that they can’t avoid that kid who ran into the road. 
Wendy P. 

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1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

You are getting to be a bit of a drama queen lately. Orwell imagined lots worse! We have a snitch line here as well. I don't think many people will use it. But publicizing its existence will deter people. It is a balancing act and most of these measures are temporary. You might think of it a a generational sacrifice. In 6 months time it will be pretty much over and if you are still alive you can get the t-shirt.

Nope. It's only just begun.

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To no one in particular. I hid a couple of posts. One for basically asking for a personal attack, and the other for coming too close to satisfying that request. Don’t do that shit. I don’t care how ‘justifiably angry’ you are, or why. 
Wendy P. 

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1 minute ago, wmw999 said:

We can. But as long as “protecting the vulnerable” is seen as a liberal plot, good luck with that. Would you encourage a friend who had been drinking a little more than he should to take a taxi home? They’re probably not going to get in an accident, but sometimes it’s the day they’re just filled enough that they can’t avoid that kid who ran into the road. 
Wendy P. 

I don't think people see it as a "liberal plot" as you put it, so much as they see it as a cure worse than the disease. The double standards, the snitch lines, the constantly changing rules, to say nothing of all the people who have been negatively affected by it all: suicides, drug & alcohol abuse, spouse and child abuse (so I've read anecdotally - haven't seen any hard stats yet)...it just goes on and on with no end in sight, and now the politicians are trying to arbitrarily impose still more rules WHICH THEY DO NOT OBSERVE...THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

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3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The vaccines will be a game changer. Mark my words.

Dude, I'm truly hopeful that you're right...

...but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

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33 minutes ago, markharju said:

By turning an entire society into spies? The gov of Oregon is urging citizens to report non-compliance with the latest Royal Proclamations. Orwell couldn't have imagined anything worse. This kind of cowardly behavior, encouraged by elected officials, will end in blood. Lots of it.

If you saw a woman who was falling down drunk get into her minivan with her kids and drive away, would you just sit back down in front of the TV because it's none of your business and you wouldn't want to be seen as a coward?

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8 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Would you encourage a friend who had been drinking a little more than he should to take a taxi home? They’re probably not going to get in an accident, but sometimes it’s the day they’re just filled enough that they can’t avoid that kid who ran into the road. 
Wendy P. 

Hell yes, I would intercede. I'd stop him, or drive him myself. But I wouldn't call the law on him unless he was out of control. I wouldn't allow the law to be the first (and only) option, which is what these governments appear to be encouraging. I think that's a difference.

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4 minutes ago, markharju said:

The double standards, the snitch lines, the constantly changing rules,

It hasn't changed, it has been adjusted to fit the circumstances. It simply all comes down to how many beds and staff are available in the hospitals. No one wants to screw over their neighbours. No one wants to cancel church gatherings. No one relishes controlling the population. We are all trying to cope as well as we can till things get better. 

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3 minutes ago, billvon said:

If you saw a woman who was falling down drunk get into her minivan with her kids and drive away, would you just sit back down in front of the TV because it's none of your business and you wouldn't want to be seen as a coward?

I understand and appreciate the analogy you're making, but it's not the same as snitching on your neighbor because he was in his  backyard  without a COVID mask on.

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1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

It hasn't changed, it has been adjusted to fit the circumstances. It simply all comes down to how many beds and staff are available in the hospitals. No one wants to screw over their neighbours. No one wants to cancel church gatherings. No one relishes controlling the population. We are all trying to cope as well as we can till things get better. 

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but when the Atty Gen of Virginia cancels a public event (a gun show), even though the promoters worked with city and county officials to fully comply with COVID restrictions then in place, and said Atty Gen BRAGS about shutting it down...urge to crusade intensifies.

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6 minutes ago, markharju said:

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but when the Atty Gen of Virginia cancels a public event (a gun show), even though the promoters worked with city and county officials to fully comply with COVID restrictions then in place, and said Atty Gen BRAGS about shutting it down...urge to crusade intensifies.

Oh Jeez, God freaking forbid that that a piddling little thing like a pandemic with so far a quarter million US deaths should interfere with the mighty US killing machine sales industry. Give me a fucking break.

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5 minutes ago, markharju said:

I understand and appreciate the analogy you're making, but it's not the same as snitching on your neighbor because he was in his  backyard  without a COVID mask on.

Here we go again with you changing the conversation after the fact.

You posted a picture of a mask calling it a mind control device.  Phil1111 said that you "need to have a conversation with the families of a nursing home dealing with a covid infection due to no fault of their own.  Because the employees or visitors couldn't discipline themselves. Or were innocently exposed to covid by someone else who couldn't discipline themselves."

Nothing about a neighbor in a backyard without a COVID mask on.  You posted a picture of a paper mask, claiming it was a mind control device that presumably only the weak-minded sheep wear.  THAT is what we are talking about.

If you have now decided that you want to walk that back, great - good decision.  If that's the case, perhaps stop with all the calling people "Stazi" and "Orwellian" since you just admitted you'd snitch just as fast as you could if you thought it was important and there was no other option.

 

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15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Oh Jeez, God freaking forbid that that a piddling little thing like a pandemic with so far a quarter million US deaths should interfere with the mighty US killing machine sales industry. Give me a fucking break.

I figured that would push your button. However, there are always lots of things at gun shows that don't involve guns. Things like bowhunting, knifemaking, buckskinning (look it up), general outdoors stuff. Besides, there is still a Second Amendment in the US. Unlike some places I could name. The Va Atty Gen boasted of causing economic harm to people just to satisfy his personal agenda. If that isn't abuse of power, then what is? What if it was a Repub Atty Gen and he shut down a BLM meeting? Oh wait! He wouldn't do that...they'd riot and firebomb his house. Tell me more about this "killing machine sales industry" (meaning gun shows) of which you, as a foreigner, with only the rights your government deigns to give you, know so much about.

Edited by Guest

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10 minutes ago, billvon said:

Here we go again with you changing the conversation after the fact.

You posted a picture of a mask calling it a mind control device.  Phil1111 said that you "need to have a conversation with the families of a nursing home dealing with a covid infection due to no fault of their own.  Because the employees or visitors couldn't discipline themselves. Or were innocently exposed to covid by someone else who couldn't discipline themselves."

Nothing about a neighbor in a backyard without a COVID mask on.  You posted a picture of a paper mask, claiming it was a mind control device that presumably only the weak-minded sheep wear.  THAT is what we are talking about.

If you have now decided that you want to walk that back, great - good decision.  If that's the case, perhaps stop with all the calling people "Stazi" and "Orwellian" since you just admitted you'd snitch just as fast as you could if you thought it was important and there was no other option.

 

I  knew you'd try to trap me with this. And you're right about the "mind control" thing. Nonetheless, I stand by my remarks. I don't see them worn properly, and in the end, how effective are they? Are they magic somehow? Wouldn't real respirators be better? See comments about abuse of authority by the VA Atty Gen. And while we're using the analogy, what's stopping me from "dropping a dime" on my sober neighbor who's not DWI but is just going to the dry cleaners? Snitch lines offer way too many opportunities for mischief. See "swatting". Edit to add: if you're counting on people to "do the right thing", you're expecting too much and you didn't count on "Karen".

Edited by Guest

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They’re not perfect, but neither is my car. I still use it, because it’s an improvement over not having one. 
And in the “take care of it yourself” department, someone was just arrested for spitting on two women who weren’t wearing masks as required on a popular and busy hiking trail. He also told them he was positive for COVID. Stupid is as stupid does — they recorded him. 
Yes, they also should have been wearing masks, but I’d say spitting is worse. 
Wendy P. 

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35 minutes ago, markharju said:

However, there are always lots of things at gun shows that don't involve guns. Things like bowhunting, knifemaking, buckskinning (look it up), general outdoors stuff. Besides, there is still a Second Amendment in the US.

Yes, I'm sure there are all those things. And the cancellation of the show is not because of guns. It is crowd control, not gun control.

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29 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

They’re not perfect, but neither is my car. I still use it, because it’s an improvement over not having one. 
And in the “take care of it yourself” department, someone was just arrested for spitting on two women who weren’t wearing masks as required on a popular and busy hiking trail. He also told them he was positive for COVID. Stupid is as stupid does — they recorded him. 
Yes, they also should have been wearing masks, but I’d say spitting is worse. 
Wendy P. 

Hi Mark,

You have posted:

‘The gov of Oregon is urging citizens to report non-compliance with the latest Royal Proclamations.

 ‘but it's not the same as snitching on your neighbor because he was in his backyard without a COVID mask on.

 ‘Nonetheless, I stand by my remarks.

The governor of Oregon ( where I live ) never said to turn in your neighbor for being in the backyard without a mask.  Do your homework & try to be correct in the future.

Jerry Baumchen

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39 minutes ago, markharju said:

I  knew you'd try to trap me with this. And you're right about the "mind control" thing. Nonetheless, I stand by my remarks. I don't see them worn properly, and in the end, how effective are they? See comments about abuse of authority by the VA Atty Gen. And while we're using the analogy, what's stopping me from "dropping a dime" on my sober neighbor who's not DWI but is just going to the dry cleaners? Snitch lines offer way too many opportunities for mischief. See "swatting". Edit to add: if you're counting on people to "do the right thing", you're expecting too much and you didn't count on "Karen".

Pretty effective.
In Kansas, the governor enacted a mask mandate but allowed counties to opt out. Counties that enforced the mandate saw a decline in infection rates; counties that opted out saw cases continue to rise.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6947e2-H.pdf

Now of course masking is just one NPI that works.  Combine it with distancing, tracing, testing and better hygiene and you would see a very rapid improvement.
 

Quote

Are they magic somehow? Wouldn't real respirators be better?

Sure, they'd be better.  But they are also a lot harder to use, a lot more expensive for an average person to wear and impractical for many at-risk people (dental hygenists, cops, teachers etc.)  But cloth masks are sufficient to reduce infection rates, and that's the goal.

Quote

And while we're using the analogy, what's stopping me from "dropping a dime" on my sober neighbor who's not DWI but is just going to the dry cleaners?

Most people aren't assholes, which is why this doesn't happen very often.  (Of course, a few are, as swatting cases demonstrate.)
 

Quote

Edit to add: if you're counting on people to "do the right thing", you're expecting too much and you didn't count on "Karen".

Didn't you JUST GET DONE telling us all that you should encourage people to do the right thing instead of counting on the nanny state to enforce things?  Like an hour ago?  Make up your mind, man.

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15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, I'm sure there are all those things. And the cancellation of the show is not because of guns. It is crowd control, not gun control.

Yes, but once you invoke the word "gun" it's like a Christian invoking "Jesus."  From then on the argument is going to be a religious one.

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1 hour ago, markharju said:

Nonetheless, I stand by my remarks. I don't see them worn properly, and in the end, how effective are they? Are they magic somehow? Wouldn't real respirators be better?

Well unless your brain is as powerful as the Fugaku supercomputer in Japan, I'd take the results of the simulations with more credibility than a random retired angry guy in Germany:

If that's too long:

Quote

While nonwoven masks blocked nearly all droplets emitted in a cough, all three types stopped at least around 80% of spray, making them effective at slowing the spread of the coronavirus, the team behind the tests said.

The method they use seem to be a mix of standard CFD simulation (Navier-Stokes) and SPH (smoothed particle hydrodynamics).

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1 hour ago, markharju said:

Edit to add: if you're counting on people to "do the right thing", you're expecting too much and you didn't count on "Karen".

LOL. Bill nailed you on this already, but I'm still curious. Since you can't rely on people to do the right thing and take virus precautions on their own, and you can't use the police, what can you do?

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