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SivaGanesha

for which crimes, if any, should Trump be prosecuted?

should Trump be prosecuted and, if so, for which crimes?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. for which crimes, if any, should Trump be prosecuted after he leaves office?

    • crimes connected with his official duties as President
      3
    • business crimes related to his private activities in the Trump Organization
      11
    • personal crimes -- i.e. the sexual assault of women
      4
    • in the interests of healing the country, Trump should not be prosecuted
      2
    • Trump should not be prosecuted because I believe he is innocent of wrongdoing
      1


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31 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I've given basically the same opinion, and why...several times now. You have your view. I have mine. I guess we will see what happens. 

Of course I can type. Sort of. Edited over sixty books for other authors, although these days I'm down to one or two a year. So many I forget the exact number anymore.  ¬¬

That's understandable. Here's help: your last post took 593 words to say nothing you haven't already said.

Edited by JoeWeber
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I don’t think he’s also opposed to NY state prosecuting. 
There’s a really good article in this Sunday’s NY Times magazine on the issue, laying out possible charges, upsides and downsides to various sets of charges, etc. 
Wendy P. 

 

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4 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I don’t think he’s also opposed to NY state prosecuting. 
There’s a really good article in this Sunday’s NY Times magazine on the issue, laying out possible charges, upsides and downsides to various sets of charges, etc. 
Wendy P. 

 

But you don't know, and neither do I or others. 

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I am not opposed to prosecuting Trump for financial or other business crimes in New York, or any other state for that matter. As far as his unbelievable failure as our President, I'm willing to just let him leave the White House with his tail between his legs and become a footnote. Everyone is tired of him. To paraphrase Sir Cedric Hardwicke from the movie The Ten Commandments

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'The name of Trump will be stricken from all monuments and obelisks..." :/

Everyone is tired. Everyone has been going at each other's throats for four years. We have all these problems. The hell with Trump. 

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'The quality of mercy is not strained. 
It drops as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed.
It blesses him that gives and him that takes...'

Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
(and from an episode of The Twilight Zone^_^

I just want him to Go Away. No more platforms. No more attention. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Neither THAT, or Trump's behavior in office can be excused. On the other hand, sometimes it's better to just show the dog the door and leave it at that.

Why is it better to leave the door open for another dog?

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If we didn't have so much division in this country right now, I might agree to come after Trump after he leaves office on a political crimes level, trying to charge and convict him for actions while in office. But the US has so many desperate problems now, and is SO divided, that it makes no sense to waste any further time with him on a Federal level.

That's when you need to uphold standards. You think it helps unify a country when one side sees the others' guy breaking every rule and law about how to behave while in office and getting away with it? You think that brings people together?

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I have no problem with that, because you are dealing with Trump on that basis not as an ex-President, but as a private citizen like everyone else.  

An ex-President is a private citizen like everyone else. A President is a citizen like everyone else. The fact that your country has forgotten that is a major source of your problems. Since you recognise that you have a lot of problems, it's crazy that you so strongly resist doing anything about them.

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You just KNOW what will happen after he leaves office anyway. Some Republicans will come clean about him. There will books on Trump by the ton, none of them flattering. The truth will come out, what hasn't already that is. He will be completely humiliated. That's good enough for me.

They done that already. They were doing it all through Trump's term. The result, 74 million votes, the second highest total in history. He's not personally humiliated and he's not humiliated in the eyes of his supporters. Don't be so naive as to think a few more inside scoops are going to change that.

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Remember: Trump's ascension to the Presidency wasn't a coup. WE, as a country, VOTED HIM INTO THAT JOB. So WE...as a country...are responsible for him. And what we got for that foolishness is the national situation you see NOW. 

Exactly. And if you steadfastly refuse to hold the President accountable for any rules or laws they break while in office, the next time you vote in him or someone like him you'll get an even higher level of foolishness.

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"Face it. You fucked up. You trusted us..." B) In other words, we knew better. We ignored the warnings. We fucked up. No one should be surprised, and we have only ourselves to blame. To me, Trump is the biggest reminder ever that we should never be complacent again when we decide either TO vote, or to WHOM that vote will go to.

It's a reminder to YOU, but YOU didn't vote for him in the first place. It's clearly not a reminder to the 74 million people who did vote for him, because they voted for him. They didn't think they fucked up. They trusted him again. They ignored the warnings again. They will learn no lessons and take no reminders whatsoever from this about who to vote for because they don't think they were in the least bit complacent this time.

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57 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I just want him to Go Away. No more platforms. No more attention. 

I'm afraid you havent been paying attention. Trump isn't going away. He is literally going to be standing on platforms at rallies still. He's going to be all over whichever TV stations will have him. He's going to try and control Republican policy and influence primaries at all levels from his Twitter feed and he could well run again in 2024.

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Maybe you should stop asking me the same question and expecting a different answer...B)

You don't answer the questions. You still haven't even attempted to state why you think it's a good thing for Presidents to know that they can break whatever laws they want and engage in as much corruption as they want while in office and face no legal consequences whatsoever.

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I am not opposed to prosecuting Trump for financial or other business crimes in New York, or any other state for that matter. As far as his unbelievable failure as our President, I'm willing to just let him leave the White House with his tail between his legs and become a footnote. Everyone is tired of him. To paraphrase Sir Cedric Hardwicke from the movie The Ten Commandments

Everyone is tired. Everyone has been going at each other's throats for four years. We have all these problems. The hell with Trump. 

I just want him to Go Away. No more platforms. No more attention. 

If the precedent is set that being a crook has no negative consequences for a president, how will that deter future presidents from crooked behavior? 

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I get it. You want Trump put on a pedestal in front of the entire nation and pilloried, and then maybe sent to prison to teach future Presidents a lesson. He will never see the inside of a jail cell. He might deserve it, but he won't. 

Yes, that will certainly begin the process of healing this nation, won't it? 

I don't know about you, but I have bigger things to worry about. Trump's a clown, a sideline who got tossed from office on his ear, and went out a bad loser. A majority of people in America made their voices known, and that is that. Time to move on, not give him a 24/7 national platform, ownership of the news cycle, the ability to instill violence, and 70 million pissed-off supporters. 

Nah. I gotta take a pass on that one. You'll never convince me that what you want is worth the misery and continued division it will bring. If I were Biden, I would pardon Trump, and assuming he accepts it, make a nice speech on Inauguration Day. The only way to solve the problems Trump caused, or to correct the lies he's told, normalize our government institutions, or to heal our foreign policy is to put him behind us.  

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I get it. You want Trump put on a pedestal in front of the entire nation and pilloried, and then maybe sent to prison to teach future Presidents a lesson. He will never see the inside of a jail cell. He might deserve it, but he won't. 

You don't get it. It's not about pillorying Trump, it's about demonstrating that politicians are accountable to the law just like everyone else, and that rampant corruption isn't OK just because you hold a powerful office. 

I get that you think the solution is to click your heels three times and wish no-one else will abuse the system but that's simply not an effective real world solution.

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Yes, that will certainly begin the process of healing this nation, won't it? 

It will help prevent it from being broken again.

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I don't know about you, but I have bigger things to worry about. Trump's a clown, a sideline who got tossed from office on his ear, and went out a bad loser. A majority of people in America made their voices known, and that is that. 

If you have bigger things to worry about, why is this the single political topic you have engaged with more than any other ever on this forum? If you have bigger things to worry about why not just ignore it and not care either way if the Justice department decides to indict Trump on charges related to his actions in office?

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Time to move on, not give him a 24/7 national platform, ownership of the news cycle, the ability to instill violence, and 70 million pissed-off supporters. 

He has all that anyway.

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 Nah. I gotta take a pass on that one. 

Really. You'll take a pass on explaining why you think it's a good thing for government corruption to run unchecked at the highest levels? What a surprise.

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The only way to solve the problems Trump caused, or to correct the lies he's told, normalize our government institutions, or to heal our foreign policy is to put him behind us.  

Yes. Because throughout history problems have best been solved by closing your eyes and hoping they'll go away. That's why Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" speech is remembered as such sage wisdom.

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5 minutes ago, ryoder said:

"I am not a crook," the 65-year-old, whose combative style made him one of France's most popular politicians, told BFM TV this month.

 

He certainly hasn't learned any lessons from history:rofl:

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3 minutes ago, jakee said:

"I am not a crook," the 65-year-old, whose combative style made him one of France's most popular politicians, told BFM TV this month.

 

He certainly hasn't learned any lessons from history:rofl:

I wonder if that was translated from French, or if he said that in English. If it was the latter, then it is absolutely hilarious!

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If you consider the number of politicians who have been re-elected while in jail, or served while in jail, or had their spouses serve as substitutes while they're in jail, then you can understand the power of populism and personality. No, I don't get it, but that doesn't mean it's not real. These people (including Pa Ferguson, Marion Barry, James Curley, and undoubtedly others) are still considered to be great by some.

The less publicity, the better. He thrives on it; it's his vampire blood. Suck that away from him.

Wendy P.

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21 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

If you consider the number of politicians who have been re-elected while in jail, or served while in jail, or had their spouses serve as substitutes while they're in jail, then you can understand the power of populism and personality. No, I don't get it, but that doesn't mean it's not real. These people (including Pa Ferguson, Marion Barry, James Curley, and undoubtedly others) are still considered to be great by some.

The less publicity, the better. He thrives on it; it's his vampire blood. Suck that away from him.

Wendy P.

You contradict yourself. If populism and personality can be strong enough to sustain people who are in jail then it can sustain people who are not in jail. When populism and personality are that powerful it doesn't matter if you fight them or not, they'll have support regardless. So why give them special treatment and reward them for their populism?

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Let the state do its thing. He’ll go down for that. And the cult of personality is exacerbated by supporting someone seen as an underdog (“he’s fighting for us and now they’ve come to get him.”). Take that tool away. It’s less satisfying to the people who want to see him punished, but if he can’t set foot in the US because states extradite, he’ll have a much harder time maintaining. Not impossible, but harder. 
Wendy P. 

 

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3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I get it. You want Trump put on a pedestal in front of the entire nation and pilloried,

Strawman much?

I want him convicted for any crimes he committed, and punished in a way no different from any other person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

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2 hours ago, jakee said:

"I am not a crook," the 65-year-old, whose combative style made him one of France's most popular politicians, told BFM TV this month.

 

He certainly hasn't learned any lessons from history:rofl:

The US could learn from France and history:

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4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I get it. You want Trump put on a pedestal in front of the entire nation and praised as a nationalist hero.

FIFY

53 minutes ago, kallend said:

Strawman much?

I want him convicted for any crimes he committed, and punished in a way no different from any other person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Unfortunately Biden wants to build bridges to a island of nationalists, racists, isolationists, who number 71 million. So it will be up to the constitutionalists  of the SDNY to uphold the rule of law. Not for kings, demigods and dictator wannabe's. But for every American who respects the constitution and the rule of law.

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2 hours ago, ryoder said:

Nor Israel.

Nor Brazil.

Nor Peru

Nor El Salvador

Nor Argentina

and on and on. Perhaps Mods should move this thread to the Banana Republic thread. lets face it America loves its Royal Families, you know "Camelot".

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Let the state do its thing. He’ll go down for that. And the cult of personality is exacerbated by supporting someone seen as an underdog (“he’s fighting for us and now they’ve come to get him.”). Take that tool away. It’s less satisfying to the people who want to see him punished, but if he can’t set foot in the US because states extradite, he’ll have a much harder time maintaining. Not impossible, but harder. 
Wendy P. 

 

Not every circumstance has an historical parallel with proven solutions on offer. I see this as such a situation. If the State can emasculate Trump and reduce his effectiveness such that he is not a potential 2024 contender that would be great. If the damage done was such that someone in favor of using Federal charges to damage him and his political brand was persuaded the job was already done then fine, pardon him. But arguing now that it's wrong, counter productive or unnecessary to prosecute him federally is putting the solution in front of knowing of the problem. First, let's just have one day where he isn't using the office for other than personal gain and selfish assaults, at the minimum, and then let's decide how far we should go to be rid of him.

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