2 2
SivaGanesha

for which crimes, if any, should Trump be prosecuted?

should Trump be prosecuted and, if so, for which crimes?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. for which crimes, if any, should Trump be prosecuted after he leaves office?

    • crimes connected with his official duties as President
      3
    • business crimes related to his private activities in the Trump Organization
      11
    • personal crimes -- i.e. the sexual assault of women
      4
    • in the interests of healing the country, Trump should not be prosecuted
      2
    • Trump should not be prosecuted because I believe he is innocent of wrongdoing
      1


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I get it. You want Trump put on a pedestal in front of the entire nation and pilloried, and then maybe sent to prison to teach future Presidents a lesson. He will never see the inside of a jail cell. He might deserve it, but he won't. 

You don't get it. It's not about pillorying Trump, it's about demonstrating that politicians are accountable to the law just like everyone else, and that rampant corruption isn't OK just because you hold a powerful office. 

I get that you think the solution is to click your heels three times and wish no-one else will abuse the system but that's simply not an effective real world solution.

Quote

Yes, that will certainly begin the process of healing this nation, won't it? 

It will help prevent it from being broken again.

Quote

I don't know about you, but I have bigger things to worry about. Trump's a clown, a sideline who got tossed from office on his ear, and went out a bad loser. A majority of people in America made their voices known, and that is that. 

If you have bigger things to worry about, why is this the single political topic you have engaged with more than any other ever on this forum? If you have bigger things to worry about why not just ignore it and not care either way if the Justice department decides to indict Trump on charges related to his actions in office?

Quote

Time to move on, not give him a 24/7 national platform, ownership of the news cycle, the ability to instill violence, and 70 million pissed-off supporters. 

He has all that anyway.

Quote

 Nah. I gotta take a pass on that one. 

Really. You'll take a pass on explaining why you think it's a good thing for government corruption to run unchecked at the highest levels? What a surprise.

Quote

The only way to solve the problems Trump caused, or to correct the lies he's told, normalize our government institutions, or to heal our foreign policy is to put him behind us.  

Yes. Because throughout history problems have best been solved by closing your eyes and hoping they'll go away. That's why Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" speech is remembered as such sage wisdom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ryoder said:

"I am not a crook," the 65-year-old, whose combative style made him one of France's most popular politicians, told BFM TV this month.

 

He certainly hasn't learned any lessons from history:rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jakee said:

"I am not a crook," the 65-year-old, whose combative style made him one of France's most popular politicians, told BFM TV this month.

 

He certainly hasn't learned any lessons from history:rofl:

I wonder if that was translated from French, or if he said that in English. If it was the latter, then it is absolutely hilarious!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you consider the number of politicians who have been re-elected while in jail, or served while in jail, or had their spouses serve as substitutes while they're in jail, then you can understand the power of populism and personality. No, I don't get it, but that doesn't mean it's not real. These people (including Pa Ferguson, Marion Barry, James Curley, and undoubtedly others) are still considered to be great by some.

The less publicity, the better. He thrives on it; it's his vampire blood. Suck that away from him.

Wendy P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

If you consider the number of politicians who have been re-elected while in jail, or served while in jail, or had their spouses serve as substitutes while they're in jail, then you can understand the power of populism and personality. No, I don't get it, but that doesn't mean it's not real. These people (including Pa Ferguson, Marion Barry, James Curley, and undoubtedly others) are still considered to be great by some.

The less publicity, the better. He thrives on it; it's his vampire blood. Suck that away from him.

Wendy P.

You contradict yourself. If populism and personality can be strong enough to sustain people who are in jail then it can sustain people who are not in jail. When populism and personality are that powerful it doesn't matter if you fight them or not, they'll have support regardless. So why give them special treatment and reward them for their populism?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let the state do its thing. He’ll go down for that. And the cult of personality is exacerbated by supporting someone seen as an underdog (“he’s fighting for us and now they’ve come to get him.”). Take that tool away. It’s less satisfying to the people who want to see him punished, but if he can’t set foot in the US because states extradite, he’ll have a much harder time maintaining. Not impossible, but harder. 
Wendy P. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I get it. You want Trump put on a pedestal in front of the entire nation and pilloried,

Strawman much?

I want him convicted for any crimes he committed, and punished in a way no different from any other person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jakee said:

"I am not a crook," the 65-year-old, whose combative style made him one of France's most popular politicians, told BFM TV this month.

 

He certainly hasn't learned any lessons from history:rofl:

The US could learn from France and history:

spacer.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I get it. You want Trump put on a pedestal in front of the entire nation and praised as a nationalist hero.

FIFY

53 minutes ago, kallend said:

Strawman much?

I want him convicted for any crimes he committed, and punished in a way no different from any other person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Unfortunately Biden wants to build bridges to a island of nationalists, racists, isolationists, who number 71 million. So it will be up to the constitutionalists  of the SDNY to uphold the rule of law. Not for kings, demigods and dictator wannabe's. But for every American who respects the constitution and the rule of law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ryoder said:

Nor Israel.

Nor Brazil.

Nor Peru

Nor El Salvador

Nor Argentina

and on and on. Perhaps Mods should move this thread to the Banana Republic thread. lets face it America loves its Royal Families, you know "Camelot".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Let the state do its thing. He’ll go down for that. And the cult of personality is exacerbated by supporting someone seen as an underdog (“he’s fighting for us and now they’ve come to get him.”). Take that tool away. It’s less satisfying to the people who want to see him punished, but if he can’t set foot in the US because states extradite, he’ll have a much harder time maintaining. Not impossible, but harder. 
Wendy P. 

 

Not every circumstance has an historical parallel with proven solutions on offer. I see this as such a situation. If the State can emasculate Trump and reduce his effectiveness such that he is not a potential 2024 contender that would be great. If the damage done was such that someone in favor of using Federal charges to damage him and his political brand was persuaded the job was already done then fine, pardon him. But arguing now that it's wrong, counter productive or unnecessary to prosecute him federally is putting the solution in front of knowing of the problem. First, let's just have one day where he isn't using the office for other than personal gain and selfish assaults, at the minimum, and then let's decide how far we should go to be rid of him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

FIFY

Unfortunately Biden wants to build bridges to a island of nationalists, racists, isolationists, who number 71 million. So it will be up to the constitutionalists  of the SDNY to uphold the rule of law. Not for kings, demigods and dictator wannabe's. But for every American who respects the constitution and the rule of law.

That island of 71 million is populated entirely by US citizens, with the same rights and responsibilities as the 75 million on the other island. I don’t like a lot of their views of “those aren’t real Americans” among them, and I do t like it among us. 
Wendy P. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

That island of 71 million is populated entirely by US citizens, with the same rights and responsibilities as the 75 million on the other island. I don’t like a lot of their views of “those aren’t real Americans” among them, and I do t like it among us. 
Wendy P. 

So why argue that the guy who draws them all together should have extra rights and fewer responsibilities?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I don’t.

Sorry, but that's not true.

Quote

I argue to give the state with non-political crimes precedence. 

Not just precedence. You've made it clear on several occasions you don't just want the political crimes to be a secondary consideration, you don't want any legal action on them at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, that's what I'd prefer. And for all of the reasons I've outlined. If the feds decide to go after him for political crimes, I'll think it's a dumb idea, but it's not like I'll contribute to a defense fund, I'll just wait for the more likely storm to unleash, and then (to myself) say yup, those guys really are that crazy.

If you'll recall, the original premise of the thread was where do you want to see him prosecuted. 

Calling me a liar doesn't make me one.

Wendy P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Personally, that's what I'd prefer. And for all of the reasons I've outlined. If the feds decide to go after him for political crimes, I'll think it's a dumb idea, but it's not like I'll contribute to a defense fund, I'll just wait for the more likely storm to unleash, and then (to myself) say yup, those guys really are that crazy.

If you'll recall, the original premise of the thread was where do you want to see him prosecuted. 

Calling me a liar doesn't make me one.

Wendy P.

I like the irony between the thought behind this message and the thought expressed in your signature line. The judicial system is your basic safety rule. Nixon got away with not having to face it and it would certainly seem it has removed the fear of consequences for presidents and has built (maybe false) confidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

If the feds decide to go after him for political crimes, I'll think it's a dumb idea, but it's not like I'll contribute to a defense fund, I'll just wait for the more likely storm to unleash, and then (to myself) say yup, those guys really are that crazy.

I don't even understand what you are talking about. There are no political crimes. Nowhere that I know of in the USA are political acts criminal. There is the United States Code, and various States Codes. They do not criminalize politics. Do you possibly think that criminal acts done to advance a political position are okay and should not be prosecuted?

Edited by gowlerk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I don't even understand what you are talking about. There are no political crimes. Nowhere that I know of in the USA are political acts criminal. There is the United States Code, and various States Codes. They do not criminalize politics. Do you possibly think that criminal acts done to advance a political position are okay and should not be prosecuted?

And considering "draining the swamp" was a big political battle cry in 2016, shouldn't criminal acts by politicians get more scrutiny? Isn't that what American people supposedly wanted?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 or 5 months ago I had the same opinion as Robert. Have Trump pardoned to help people heal and forget about him.

 

As I've seen the election progress, the rhetoric ever widening the divides between our party supporters and the damage that has been done to our institutions over the last 4 years it comes down to a simple question for me. Do I think Trumps supporters will do more damage in the short term if Trump is prosecuted and jailed, or do I think Trump will do more damage in the long term if he was reelected?

It's the second one, without a shadow of a doubt. 100% certain.

So far Republicans have stacked courts, disenfranchised voters and damaged the validity of our electoral process, all in the name of supporting Donald Trump. What they and he would do in a second term is terrifying.

 

So absolutely - prosecute him to the fullest extent he can be. Don't ignore a single instance. Bury him under federal and state charges for the next hundred years, because while his supporters will complain and maybe even turn violent, I don't think they'll destroy the US. Trump actually might.

Edited by yoink
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Personally, that's what I'd prefer. And for all of the reasons I've outlined. If the feds decide to go after him for political crimes, I'll think it's a dumb idea, but it's not like I'll contribute to a defense fund, I'll just wait for the more likely storm to unleash, and then (to myself) say yup, those guys really are that crazy.

If you'll recall, the original premise of the thread was where do you want to see him prosecuted. 

Calling me a liar doesn't make me one.

Wendy P.

I definitely don't think you are a liar. It seems to me that you simply want to see a consensus somewhere and then nice our way out of this horrible mess. The thing is that consensus building isn't always the best plan and nice will usually lose out to wicked and cruel. Honestly, I think that everyone who still believes that we need to go high when they go low needs to stand aside while those in favor of overkill until absolute certainty give it a go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, yoink said:

it comes down to a simple question for me. Do I think Trumps supporters will do more damage in the short term if Trump is prosecuted and jailed, or do I think Trump will do more damage in the long term if he was reelected?

It's the second one, without a shadow of a doubt. 100% certain.

Thank you. Well-stated and convincing. I still want the state to get first crack, and I don't want a witch hunt, but that, right there, gives me serious pause.

Yeah, my nature is to "nice" my way out. I know that prisons do a piss-poor job of preventing crime, and I'm intimately familiar with countries that put former dictators/rulers/presidents in jail, and how unsuccessful that often is. Yes, I'd rather find a goal for the country first, rather than a slap first.

But that was damn well said.

Wendy P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Personally, that's what I'd prefer.

Exactly, what you previously said was that you don't want him prosecuted for anything he did as President at all. That proposed immunity would have the practical effect of giving him extra rights and fewer responsibilities than other citizens.

Quote

Calling me a liar doesn't make me one.

If I was calling you a liar that's what I would have said - I think you should know that by now. I do recognise that sometimes people contradict themselves by mistake, not on purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kallend said:

Strawman much?

I want him convicted for any crimes he committed, and punished in a way no different from any other person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Hi John,

I agree 100%. 

I do not want any 'crimes' made up.  If he has committed 'crimes' then I want justice => prosecution.

I will let others decide if he has committed any 'crimes.'

Jerry Baumchen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

2 2