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for which crimes, if any, should Trump be prosecuted?

should Trump be prosecuted and, if so, for which crimes?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. for which crimes, if any, should Trump be prosecuted after he leaves office?

    • crimes connected with his official duties as President
      3
    • business crimes related to his private activities in the Trump Organization
      11
    • personal crimes -- i.e. the sexual assault of women
      4
    • in the interests of healing the country, Trump should not be prosecuted
      2
    • Trump should not be prosecuted because I believe he is innocent of wrongdoing
      1


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6 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I never said I thought Trump wasn't eligible to be prosecuted for civilian stuff related to his business practices. I said that going after a former President for possible political crimes after he leaves office will cause nothing but more discord. Nixon had a lot of supporters, even after he left office. But by Ford pardoning him, two things were accomplished. First, it relegated Nixon to a watch-from-the-sidelines role in the Republican party for the remainder of his life. And it brought a final end to the disaster of Watergate. It wasn't perfect justice, but it was better for the country as a whole. 

If you keep ripping open the wounds with Trump, he will simply continue to HAVE a voice in the Republican party. Those 70 million people who DID vote for him will continue to look up to Trump as Their Voice. Trump himself can use that for political gain, claiming 'they're just trying to stop me'. It could go round and round in the courts for years. Meanwhile, he could even try running for President again...and he might win. A scary thought. Raking him over the coals and trying to convict him of an office-related felony is just pointless. Think of the bigger picture here. 

Historians have argued for more than a century on 'Who was the worst US President ever?' The same names always come up, but often ranked in different order. James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, etc. Well, I would say that argument is OVER and Trump gets the Numero Uno spot. But in the end, we must do what is best for ALL of America, and making Trump into a martyr who will continue to have influence on American politics for years to come is NOT the way to handle this. 

Robert, Wendy, et al., I simply do not understand why anyone is bringing up Andrew Jackson, Richard Nixon etc. Trump is a new page in history. What he has done and is doing right now demands a new response. He and what he stands for is a new disease and the courts will be the vaccine. It is time for toughness not truth and reconciliation.

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8 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Robert, Wendy, et al., I simply do not understand why anyone is bringing up Andrew Jackson, Richard Nixon etc. Trump is a new page in history. What he has done and is doing right now demands a new response. He and what he stands for is a new disease and the courts will be the vaccine. It is time for toughness not truth and reconciliation.

Why? Because we learn lessons from history. Because even though it might be justified, going after Trump on a criminal basis politically will further divide the country. Your hunger for revenge could even cost lives. You keep forgetting that 70 million people actually voted for Trump. You will alienate them even further by going after him like that. The damage it will cause is not worth the cost to the nation as a whole. 

There are different forms of justice, and one of them is to be made into a non-entity, when once you were the most powerful man on Planet Earth, the so-called 'leader of the free world,' and now you become just a bad afterthought. Going after him because it's justified might be the 'correct' thing to do. But it isn't the BEST thing to do. You make Trump into a martyr with 70 million voters behind him, you are just asking for trouble. Instead of feeding the biting dog, maybe you just pull out all his teeth. 

Our nation as a whole is responsible for Trump. We should have known better. People DID know better, but many believed the lies being told during the Hillary Clinton campaign. Others bought into the name calling, the rhetoric, the hatred. People who KNEW better, but pressed the Trump button on the voting machine anyway. Trump is a product of our own actions. We should learn from what happened, and try to end the divisions now, and make sure we vote intelligently next time. What you want will simply empower Trump to do more damage from the sidelines. Let him slink away and live with the thought he was...in the end...the worst President we've ever had, and knowing that history will certainly remember him the same way. That is revenge in its best form, and considering the awful situation going on right now in the USA, the best approach. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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18 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Why? Because we learn lessons from history. Because even though it might be justified, going after Trump on a criminal basis politically will further divide the country. Your hunger for revenge could even cost lives. You keep forgetting that 70 million people actually voted for Trump. You will alienate them even further by going after him like that. The damage it will cause is not worth the cost to the nation as a whole. 

There are different forms of justice, and one of them is to be made into a non-entity, when once you were the most powerful man on Planet Earth, the so-called 'leader of the free world,' and now you become just a bad afterthought. Going after him because it's justified might be the 'correct' thing to do. But it isn't the BEST thing to do. You make Trump into a martyr with 70 million voters behind him, you are just asking for trouble. Instead of feeding the biting dog, maybe you just pull out all his teeth. 

Our nation as a whole is responsible for Trump. We should have known better. People DID know better, but many believed the lies being told during the Hillary Clinton campaign. Others bought into the name calling, the rhetoric, the hatred. People who KNEW better, but pressed the Trump button on the voting machine anyway. Trump is a product of our own actions. We should learn from what happened, and try to end the divisions now, and make sure we vote intelligently next time. What you want will simply empower Trump to do more damage from the sidelines. Let him slink away and live with the thought he was...in the end...the worst President we've ever had, and knowing that history will certainly remember him the same way. That is revenge in its best form, and considering the awful situation going on right now in the USA, the best approach. 

Wish thinking and trumpthopomorphizing. Unless you want him running in 2024 and stirring up his angry mob the next four years then you should wish for a felony conviction on anything as fast as possible. 

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I never said I thought Trump wasn't eligible to be prosecuted for civilian stuff related to his business practices. I said that going after a former President for possible political crimes after he leaves office will cause nothing but more discord.

So again, I really want you to explain to me why - since you think many Presidents are corrupt - you want to send the message to future Presidents going in that they can get away with whatever corruption they want and never have to face the consequences afterwards. Seriously, why is that a good thing?

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Nixon had a lot of supporters, even after he left office. But by Ford pardoning him, two things were accomplished. First, it relegated Nixon to a watch-from-the-sidelines role in the Republican party for the remainder of his life. And it brought a final end to the disaster of Watergate. It wasn't perfect justice, but it was better for the country as a whole.

It was worse for the country as a whole because the statement "if the President does it it is not illegal" was never disproven. That's why Trump uses it again today.

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If you keep ripping open the wounds with Trump, he will simply continue to HAVE a voice in the Republican party. Those 70 million people who DID vote for him will continue to look up to Trump as Their Voice. Trump himself can use that for political gain, claiming 'they're just trying to stop me'. It could go round and round in the courts for years. Meanwhile, he could even try running for President again...and he might win. A scary thought. Raking him over the coals and trying to convict him of an office-related felony is just pointless. Think of the bigger picture here. 

He could do that anyway. Hoping that Trump quietly goes away if you leave him alone isn't the big picture, it's not even a big picture. It's a really small picture, ok? Safeguarding the integrity of the office is the big picture. In a system of checks and balances you can't simply refuse to use the checks because it might annoy some people into supporting another guy you don't like.

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But in the end, we must do what is best for ALL of America, and making Trump into a martyr who will continue to have influence on American politics for years to come is NOT the way to handle this. 

What is best for America is the person in the most powerful office in the land knowing there are rules he has to follow. That is not what you have now.

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Why? Because we learn lessons from history. Because even though it might be justified, going after Trump on a criminal basis politically will further divide the country. Your hunger for revenge could even cost lives. You keep forgetting that 70 million people actually voted for Trump. You will alienate them even further by going after him like that. The damage it will cause is not worth the cost to the nation as a whole. 

There are different forms of justice, and one of them is to be made into a non-entity, when once you were the most powerful man on Planet Earth, the so-called 'leader of the free world,' and now you become just a bad afterthought. Going after him because it's justified might be the 'correct' thing to do. But it isn't the BEST thing to do. You make Trump into a martyr with 70 million voters behind him, you are just asking for trouble. Instead of feeding the biting dog, maybe you just pull out all his teeth. 

Our nation as a whole is responsible for Trump. We should have known better. People DID know better, but many believed the lies being told during the Hillary Clinton campaign. Others bought into the name calling, the rhetoric, the hatred. People who KNEW better, but pressed the Trump button on the voting machine anyway. Trump is a product of our own actions. We should learn from what happened, and try to end the divisions now, and make sure we vote intelligently next time. What you want will simply empower Trump to do more damage from the sidelines. Let him slink away and live with the thought he was...in the end...the worst President we've ever had, and knowing that history will certainly remember him the same way. That is revenge in its best form, and considering the awful situation going on right now in the USA, the best approach. 

Don't confuse revenge for justice. This has nothing to do with revenge, even though any punishment is richly deserved. Trump deserves to be prosecuted for his crimes in the interests of justice. As is the case for any other citizen. A court can decide on his guilt or otherwise. Why is he talking about self pardoning if he thinks he has done nothing wrong? 

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1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Wish thinking and trumpthopomorphizing. Unless you want him running in 2024 and stirring up his angry mob the next four years then you should wish for a felony conviction on anything as fast as possible. 

Trouble is...it won't be 'as fast as possible'. It will drag out for years on appeals, with juries where you have to ensure there are no Trump supporters on board...and that's just under half the voters and god knows how many non-voters who supported him. Meanwhile, his 70 million supporters that we know of now will be raising hell, inciting violence, and shoving so much disinformation out to the public that even getting a square jury will be tough. 

You want all that? You want to tear the country apart even further for a measure of revenge? Trump isn't worth the trouble. And even if he's convicted, since he has no previous criminal record, and was a US President, it is extremely unlikely he will go to jail anyway. Why waste your time with the guy? Some people who want to do this act as if they don't even care if going after Trump like that could start another civil war. The ends justify the means, right?

Go after him like that and see what happens. In three years, you will be wondering why you ever supported the idea. We got enough problems now. And those take precedence over some pointless issue of revenge. 

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2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

... I said that going after a former President for possible political crimes after he leaves office will cause nothing but more discord... 

...If you keep ripping open the wounds with Trump, he will simply continue to HAVE a voice in the Republican party. Those 70 million people who DID vote for him will continue to look up to Trump as Their Voice. Trump himself can use that for political gain, claiming 'they're just trying to stop me'. It could go round and round in the courts for years.

It kinda depends on what 'possible political crimes' you mean.

Conflict of interest, using the office to line his own pockets, collusion with Russia, illegal business deals in China, all of those are crimes

And allowing him to simply walk away without consequences will cause nothing but MORE discord. And embolden others to pull the same shit.

Those wounds are wide open right now. 

I happen to believe that indicting, prosecuting and imprisoning Trump and his kids would do a LOT to heal those wounds. 
There will always be those who deny his crimes, who continue to believe his lies, to continue to allow themselves to be conned. Based on the last 5 years, that number is higher than I would have ever guessed.

But since even Tucker Carlson is starting to see through his lies about the election, maybe there's some hope.

Having him convicted of his crimes, with all of the evidence he's tried to hide out in the open, would hopefully convince at least some of the Trumpettes. 
And he'd be hard pressed to conduct a campaign from behind bars.

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That's kind of why I want to start with the financial crimes, because they're divorced from the politics. It will split less. Corruption and clear trails, rather than righteous indignation (no matter how righteous), will go a lot farther.

Wendy P.

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15 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

That's kind of why I want to start with the financial crimes, because they're divorced from the politics. It will split less. Corruption and clear trails, rather than righteous indignation (no matter how righteous), will go a lot farther.

Wendy P.

Bingo.

Tax evasion, embezzlement, fraud. 

I think the statute of limitation has expired on the crimes related to Trump U. 

But that would have been a nice one.

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Trouble is...it won't be 'as fast as possible'. It will drag out for years on appeals, with juries where you have to ensure there are no Trump supporters on board...and that's just under half the voters and god knows how many non-voters who supported him. Meanwhile, his 70 million supporters that we know of now will be raising hell, inciting violence, and shoving so much disinformation out to the public that even getting a square jury will be tough. 

You want all that? You want to tear the country apart even further for a measure of revenge? Trump isn't worth the trouble. And even if he's convicted, since he has no previous criminal record, and was a US President, it is extremely unlikely he will go to jail anyway. Why waste your time with the guy? Some people who want to do this act as if they don't even care if going after Trump like that could start another civil war. The ends justify the means, right?

Go after him like that and see what happens. In three years, you will be wondering why you ever supported the idea. We got enough problems now. And those take precedence over some pointless issue of revenge. 

Why? I stated the why on SC multiple times: to keep him off the ballot in 2024. Whereas a felon can run for president I suspect it would be, at the minimum, debilitating to say the least. Running from a jail cell or while being prosecuted for multiple crimes in several separate cases is also likely to be distracting. The MAGA base will be an impediment in this country for a long while to come. I think it will be worse if he gets his bully pulpit cost free. No good options is no good reason to not try.

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24 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Why? I stated the why on SC multiple times: to keep him off the ballot in 2024. Whereas a felon can run for president I suspect it would be, at the minimum, debilitating to say the least. Running from a jail cell or while being prosecuted for multiple crimes in several separate cases is also likely to be distracting. The MAGA base will be an impediment in this country for a long while to come. I think it will be worse if he gets his bully pulpit cost free. No good options is no good reason to not try.

Do you think that Trump supporters would look upon a felony conviction mostly instituted by Democrats as a negative? Trump would use it as a campaign theme. And they would eat it up with a big fat spoon like turkey dinner, and follow it with a gallon of Kool-Aid. You're kidding. A pardon for Trump would look far worse for him. It would also put Trump behind us a lot faster than dragging out political accusations for years in Federal courts. 

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22 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Do you think that Trump supporters would look upon a felony conviction mostly instituted by Democrats as a negative? Trump would use it as a campaign theme. And they would eat it up with a big fat spoon like turkey dinner, and follow it with a gallon of Kool-Aid. You're kidding. A pardon for Trump would look far worse for him. It would also put Trump behind us a lot faster than dragging out political accusations for years in Federal courts. 

Again, he can not be pardoned for state crimes by a President. If the SDNY or AG James has real evidence of crimes committed by any or all the the Trumps, and they sure act like they have the goods, my hope is they be prosecuted. You think that's bad I think that's good. And before we talk Presidential pardon let's first see what's under the rock. 

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I have no objections to anything brought by the states against Trump. I think going after him on Federal stuff related to his term in office is counterproductive. It will do more harm than good. Any pardon by Joe Biden, even if Trump accepted the pardon, would have to do with Federal only. It is not a blanket immunity thing. 

Personally, I just want Trump to pack his bags and get the hell out of DC. What New York does to him later...well, that's up to New York. 

Ten bucks says the wife institutes divorce proceedings on him within 18 months or less after he leaves office. 

Fine.jpg.97a29f150f1add40305de990c70d5257.jpg

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9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Why? Because we learn lessons from history. Because even though it might be justified, going after Trump on a criminal basis politically will further divide the country.

What is the lesson from history that tells you that?

The lesson I learned from history is that Nixon thought he could do whatever he wanted with no legal repercussions and because he was proved right, now Trump thinks he can do whatever he wants with no legal repercussions. Maybe it's time to show future Presidents that they do have to follw the law.

Quote

Your hunger for revenge could even cost lives. You keep forgetting that 70 million people actually voted for Trump. You will alienate them even further by going after him like that. The damage it will cause is not worth the cost to the nation as a whole. 

There are different forms of justice, and one of them is to be made into a non-entity, when once you were the most powerful man on Planet Earth, the so-called 'leader of the free world,' and now you become just a bad afterthought. Going after him because it's justified might be the 'correct' thing to do. But it isn't the BEST thing to do. You make Trump into a martyr with 70 million voters behind him, you are just asking for trouble. Instead of feeding the biting dog, maybe you just pull out all his teeth. 

This is nonsense. It's not about personal revenge, it's about protecting and reinforcing the very system of government, and making it understood that the President is not a temporary monarch but an elected citizen within a political framework shaped by laws they have to follow.

YOU keep forgetting that 70 million people voted for Trump, and they'll be willing to vote for him or someone like him again if they have the chance. That's why political laws have to be enforced. Deciding to reset the precedent that the President can do whatever he wants with no consequences because you're wishing and hoping that it'll make his supporters calm down and vote for someone normal next time is the height of naivety.

Quote

Our nation as a whole is responsible for Trump. We should have known better. People DID know better, but many believed the lies being told during the Hillary Clinton campaign. Others bought into the name calling, the rhetoric, the hatred. People who KNEW better, but pressed the Trump button on the voting machine anyway. Trump is a product of our own actions. We should learn from what happened, and try to end the divisions now, and make sure we vote intelligently next time. 

See, just so naive. Who's 'we'? Did you vote for Trump this time round? No, then you're not part of their 'we'. You're a guy on the sidelines telling them they voted unintelligently. I'm sure they'll be very easily persuaded by that!

Quote

What you want will simply empower Trump to do more damage from the sidelines. 

What you want will simply empower Trump or someone like him to do more damage from the White House. 

Quote

Let him slink away and live with the thought he was...in the end...the worst President we've ever had, and knowing that history will certainly remember him the same way. That is revenge in its best form, and considering the awful situation going on right now in the USA, the best approach. 

He won't think that, he'll think he was the best President ever. And he'll genuinely believe it, because his tens of millions of hardline supporters, Fox news, Newsmax, OAN etc will keep telling him he was the best President ever.

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You want all that? You want to tear the country apart even further for a measure of revenge? Trump isn't worth the trouble. And even if he's convicted, since he has no previous criminal record, and was a US President, it is extremely unlikely he will go to jail anyway. Why waste your time with the guy?

Because it's a good idea to have real legal boundaries that the holders of elected office have to respect.

Quote

Some people who want to do this act as if they don't even care if going after Trump like that could start another civil war. The ends justify the means, right?

Lol, get real. Trump in court isn't causing a civil war, that's hilarious.

But if you want to play that game, go and learn your lessons from history. Learn that rampant unchecked government corruption, the very thing you want to allow, is what often leads to civil war.

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1 hour ago, jakee said:

What is the lesson from history that tells you that?

The lesson I learned from history is that Nixon thought he could do whatever he wanted with no legal repercussions and because he was proved right, now Trump thinks he can do whatever he wants with no legal repercussions. Maybe it's time to show future Presidents that they do have to follw the law.

This is nonsense. It's not about personal revenge, it's about protecting and reinforcing the very system of government, and making it understood that the President is not a temporary monarch but an elected citizen within a political framework shaped by laws they have to follow.

YOU keep forgetting that 70 million people voted for Trump, and they'll be willing to vote for him or someone like him again if they have the chance. That's why political laws have to be enforced. Deciding to reset the precedent that the President can do whatever he wants with no consequences because you're wishing and hoping that it'll make his supporters calm down and vote for someone normal next time is the height of naivety.

See, just so naive. Who's 'we'? Did you vote for Trump this time round? No, then you're not part of their 'we'. You're a guy on the sidelines telling them they voted unintelligently. I'm sure they'll be very easily persuaded by that!

What you want will simply empower Trump or someone like him to do more damage from the White House. 

He won't think that, he'll think he was the best President ever. And he'll genuinely believe it, because his tens of millions of hardline supporters, Fox news, Newsmax, OAN etc will keep telling him he was the best President ever.

Exactly.

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1 hour ago, jakee said:

Because it's a good idea to have real legal boundaries that the holders of elected office have to respect.

Lol, get real. Trump in court isn't causing a civil war, that's hilarious.

But if you want to play that game, go and learn your lessons from history. Learn that rampant unchecked government corruption, the very thing you want to allow, is what often leads to civil war.

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Meanwhile, his 70 million supporters that we know of now will be raising hell, inciting violence, and shoving so much disinformation out to the public that even getting a square jury will be tough.

They don't do that because of Trump.

The problems that cause them to do that will exist long after Trump is gone. In fact, I think it will get worse. Trump just happens to be the peg they hang their hopes on right now. If not him, it will be someone else.

So no, he shouldn't be immune from prosecution. Equal justice under the law.

Edited by olofscience

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Nixon's punishment was being forced to resign in disgrace before his term was over.  Anything additional would have been inappropriate piling-on.  Ford handled it well.

 

Losing an election isn't a disgrace - it happens all the time to perfectly good people. Just because Trump doesn't like to lose doesn't mean it's  a punishment.  I doubt other losing candidates like losing either.

If DT committed provable crimes then he should be indicted and convicted,

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11 hours ago, olofscience said:
23 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Meanwhile, his 70 million supporters that we know of now will be raising hell, inciting violence, and shoving so much disinformation out to the public that even getting a square jury will be tough.

Science says:  They don't do that because of Trump.

The problems that cause them to do that will exist long after Trump is gone. In fact, I think it will get worse. Trump just happens to be the peg they hang their hopes on right now. If not him, it will be someone else.

So no, he shouldn't be immune from prosecution. Equal justice under the law.

Of course they do. Trump has spent the last few years encouraging them in certain negative areas. People listen to the President, especially when they are his supporters. And let's not pretend that Trump was our only president whose term was rocked with scandal, lies, etc. Ulysses S. Grant, although basically honest, was surrounded by so much graft and corruption and scandal as to be ridiculous. He and his entire Cabinet could easily have gone to jail. 

Neither THAT, or Trump's behavior in office can be excused. On the other hand, sometimes it's better to just show the dog the door and leave it at that. If turnout had not reached historical levels, Trump could have won another term, and we should be grateful he did not. It was a friggin' miracle that the American people had coming. I guess one side must have prayed harder than the other, or maybe even God doesn't like hate-mongering. I dunno. B)

If we didn't have so much division in this country right now, I might agree to come after Trump after he leaves office on a political crimes level, trying to charge and convict him for actions while in office. But the US has so many desperate problems now, and is SO divided, that it makes no sense to waste any further time with him on a Federal level. All it will accomplish is to create more discord, more division, and possibly even more violence. Why keep putting the spotlight on him for years? Why keep feeding him the attention he craves? Why keep shoving fuel into the fire his supporters can use? 

The return you might get...after years of go-arounds in one Federal court after another just isn't worth our energy or time. The payoff is small compared to the repercussions. There are more negatives than positives here with such actions. We should move on from Trump, and if certain states want to come after he and his family regarding their business dealings or the like, then fine. I have no problem with that, because you are dealing with Trump on that basis not as an ex-President, but as a private citizen like everyone else. 

You just KNOW what will happen after he leaves office anyway. Some Republicans will come clean about him. There will books on Trump by the ton, none of them flattering. The truth will come out, what hasn't already that is. He will be completely humiliated. That's good enough for me. We have a pandemic to conquer, lives to save, an economy to stitch together again, and those things should get our attention. Not putting Trump on the pedestal like a martyr with 70 million voters, right-wing groups, and Faux News pumping it up for the next four years. Haven't you had enough of that? 

Remember: Trump's ascension to the Presidency wasn't a coup. WE, as a country, VOTED HIM INTO THAT JOB. So WE...as a country...are responsible for him. And what we got for that foolishness is the national situation you see NOW. 

It's kind of like that scene from the movie, Animal House. The part when Flounder starts whining when they wreck his brother's car. 

"Face it. You fucked up. You trusted us..." B) In other words, we knew better. We ignored the warnings. We fucked up. No one should be surprised, and we have only ourselves to blame. To me, Trump is the biggest reminder ever that we should never be complacent again when we decide either TO vote, or to WHOM that vote will go to. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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51 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Of course they do. Trump has spent the last few years encouraging them in certain negative areas. People listen to the President, especially when they are his supporters. And let's not pretend that Trump was our only president whose term was rocked with scandal, lies, etc. Ulysses S. Grant, although basically honest, was surrounded by so much graft and corruption and scandal as to be ridiculous. He and his entire Cabinet could easily have gone to jail. 

Neither THAT, or Trump's behavior in office can be excused. On the other hand, sometimes it's better to just show the dog the door and leave it at that. If turnout had not reached historical levels, Trump could have won another term, and we should be grateful he did not. It was a friggin' miracle that the American people had coming. I guess one side must have prayed harder than the other, or maybe even God doesn't like hate-mongering. I dunno. B)

If we didn't have so much division in this country right now, I might agree to come after Trump after he leaves office on a political crimes level, trying to charge and convict him for actions while in office. But the US has so many desperate problems now, and is SO divided, that it makes no sense to waste any further time with him on a Federal level. All it will accomplish is to create more discord, more division, and possibly even more violence. Why keep putting the spotlight on him for years? Why keep feeding him the attention he craves? Why keep shoving fuel into the fire his supporters can use? 

The return you might get...after years of go-arounds in one Federal court after another just isn't worth our energy or time. The payoff is small compared to the repercussions. There are more negatives than positives here with such actions. We should move on from Trump, and if certain states want to come after he and his family regarding their business dealings or the like, then fine. I have no problem with that, because you are dealing with Trump on that basis not as an ex-President, but as a private citizen like everyone else. 

You just KNOW what will happen after he leaves office anyway. Some Republicans will come clean about him. There will books on Trump by the ton, none of them flattering. The truth will come out, what hasn't already that is. He will be completely humiliated. That's good enough for me. We have a pandemic to conquer, lives to save, an economy to stitch together again, and those things should get our attention. Not putting Trump on the pedestal like a martyr with 70 million voters, right-wing groups, and Faux News pumping it up for the next four years. Haven't you had enough of that? 

Remember: Trump's ascension to the Presidency wasn't a coup. WE, as a country, VOTED HIM INTO THAT JOB. So WE...as a country...are responsible for him. And what we got for that foolishness is the national situation you see NOW. 

It's kind of like that scene from the movie, Animal House. The part when Flounder starts whining when they wreck his brother's car. 

"Face it. You fucked up. You trusted us..." B) In other words, we knew better. We ignored the warnings. We fucked up. No one should be surprised, and we have only ourselves to blame. To me, Trump is the biggest reminder ever that we should never be complacent again when we decide either TO vote, or to WHOM that vote will go to. 

What?

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