for which crimes, if any, should Trump be prosecuted?

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, yoink said:

As I've seen the election progress, the rhetoric ever widening the divides between our party supporters and the damage that has been done to our institutions over the last 4 years it comes down to a simple question for me. Do I think Trumps supporters will do more damage in the short term if Trump is prosecuted and jailed, or do I think Trump will do more damage in the long term if he was reelected?

I simply don't think either of those things should be a consideration. If he committed crimes in office he should be prosecuted because crime is crime no matter how privileged you are. Wanting him to be prosecuted in order to stop him being elected would mean potentially supporting a politically motivated witchhunt if nothing obvious came to light, and that would be wrong.

Similarly, the behavour of his supporters shouldn't be an issue. First in principle, because you shouldn't get better treatment as a result of being more successful at being a fucking arsehole. Second in reality, because honestly they're not going to be that bad. The country survived the BLM protests just fine, and no matter how noisy they are there is simply not the depth and true strength of feeling from Trumpeteers towards his cause as there is towards racial injustice. The vast majority of Trump supporters are just like Ron - full of sound and fury signifying nothing and standing up for nothing. They'll go to some rallies and they'll picket a courtroom or two but like all would be bullies they mosly lack the gumption to get out and put themselves on the line. They'll just simmer back down to posting shit on Facebook like they were going to do anyway.

[gowlerk 1,902]

38 minutes ago, jakee said:

The vast majority of Trump supporters are just like Ron - full of sound and fury signifying nothing and standing up for nothing. They'll go to some rallies and they'll picket a courtroom or two but like all would be bullies they mosly lack the gumption to get out and put themselves on the line. They'll just simmer back down to posting shit on Facebook like they were going to do anyway.

Whoa there......thems fightin' words. Careful, or a keyboard warrior may just challenge you to a typing duel!

[yoink 321]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

I simply don't think either of those things should be a consideration. If he committed crimes in office he should be prosecuted because crime is crime no matter how privileged you are. Wanting him to be prosecuted in order to stop him being elected would mean potentially supporting a politically motivated witchhunt if nothing obvious came to light, and that would be wrong.

 

Whether he SHOULD be prosecuted or not shouldn’t take either of those into account. Same as for anyone.

Whether I’m emotionally happy about it or believe it’s the best route forward does.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Somewhat random thought:

I'd like to see Biden appoint a serious, dedicated, well respected professional as AG.
And when he gets nominated, I'd like to see Biden say something to the effect of:

'I'm appointing (insert name here) because he (or she) is a long time professional, known and respected by both friend and foe. 
My only order will be 'enforce the law'. I won't say to go after this person or to leave that person alone. I won't interfere in any prosecution. 
My only expectation is that he (or she) will prosecute those who commit crimes to the appropriate extent. To show no favor in any direction based on position, skin color or wealth.'

 

The idea that Trump should be left alone because his supporters might make trouble is really stupid.
First off, as noted above, they're mostly a bunch of posers, wannabes & bullies. Very few of them will actually stand up and fight. 
Those few that will should suffer the consequences of their actions. 
The FBI is pretty good at that sort of thing.

Second, it sets the precedent that those who make a lot of threats will be allowed to intimidate the government. The 'will of the people' should only go so far, and preventing prosecution of actual crimes is way beyond where it should be.

 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Wanting him to be prosecuted in order to stop him being elected would mean potentially supporting a politically motivated witchhunt if nothing obvious came to light, and that would be wrong.

You are assuming. Wanting him prosecuted in order to stop him from being elected again is a stand alone desire.

[jakee 1,254]

37 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And when he gets nominated, I'd like to see Biden say something to the effect of:

'I'm appointing (insert name here) because he (or she) is a long time professional, known and respected by both friend and foe. 
My only order will be 'enforce the law'. I won't say to go after this person or to leave that person alone. I won't interfere in any prosecution. 
My only expectation is that he (or she) will prosecute those who commit crimes to the appropriate extent. To show no favor in any direction based on position, skin color or wealth.'

Biden has already said that it's not his place to get involved.

"It is not something the president is entitled to do, to direct a prosecution or decide to drop a case," Biden told MSNBC in an interview in May. "It's a dereliction of duty."

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

I wasn't aware of that, but I'm not surprised.

I'd still like to see him say it again, to make it really clear. 

To contrast himself with the Orange Idiot and "lock her up!"

[obelixtim 100]

Here is Glenn Kirshners take on it. Fair points. Watch from 2.40 on.

Here's Why the Rule of Law Requires Trump Be Prosecuted Upon Leaving Office - YouTube

[SkyDekker 1,120]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

I simply don't think either of those things should be a consideration. If he committed crimes in office he should be prosecuted because crime is crime no matter how privileged you are.

How a country can have people spending life in jail for shoplifting and argue that the president should not be prosecuted for crimes is entirely too Banana Republic for me.

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Lastly, I can now see a scenario forming where Trump will resign and have Pence grant him and his entire family a pardon.

(yes I understand that will still leave him open to state level prosecution)

[yoink 321]

10 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Lastly, I can now see a scenario forming where Trump will resign and have Pence grant him and his entire family a pardon.

(yes I understand that will still leave him open to state level prosecution)

I don’t see that happening just because it would be seen as needing help and losing in his own mind.

Both things Trump is incapable of doing.

Edited November 24, 2020 by yoink

[mistercwood 287]

Trump exists in his current form entirely as a byproduct of never being held accountable for anything in his life.

If you let him get away without accountability yet again - after ascending to the highest office in the land and shitting all over every rule and norm during his stay - there's going to be another one of him and they're going to be much, much worse.

[SkyDekker 1,120]

7 minutes ago, yoink said:

I don’t see that happening just because it would be seen as needing help and losing in his own mind.

That is easy.

Your favourite president has never done anything wrong. All the best people say I have been the best and most honest president in the history of the United States. We know the horrible Deep State will continue to try and come after your favourite President. To stick it to those evil libtards I will step down and be pardoned so I can ensure to keep fighting for you against the evil of the Deep State. MAGA

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

That is easy.

Your favourite president has never done anything wrong. All the best people say I have been the best and most honest president in the history of the United States. We know the horrible Deep State will continue to try and come after your favourite President. To stick it to those evil libtards I will step down and be pardoned so I can ensure to keep fighting for you against the evil of the Deep State. MAGA

Yeah, except he knows that accepting a pardon means admitting wrongdoing.

He learned that when he pardoned Arpaio.

 

[SkyDekker 1,120]

1 minute ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Yeah, except he knows that accepting a pardon means admitting wrongdoing.

He knows getting the GSA to sign the letter means he has lost, but he just states the opposite. His base will believe him, since it shows he is in control. Right, wrong, guilty, innocent doesn't matter here. What matters is who is in control. It will be easy to sell as a "power move." Specially since there will be a large uproar about it and lots of outrage.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Yeah, maybe.

But the more I think about it, the more I doubt it will happen.

The idea of resigning to allow Pence to pardon him is a bit more 'planning & thinking & shit' than he's shown ANY ability or willingness to do.

It was pointed out that lots of his supporters thought that his claims of fraud and all that were part of some sort of 'master plan'. Which goes against all the evidence that he's NEVER had any real plan at all, for anything. Ever.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

13 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

That is easy.

Your favourite president has never done anything wrong. All the best people say I have been the best and most honest president in the history of the United States. We know the horrible Deep State will continue to try and come after your favourite President. To stick it to those evil libtards I will step down and be pardoned so I can ensure to keep fighting for you against the evil of the Deep State. MAGA

You're just being argumentative for the fun of it. Yoink and mrcwood are spot on. Just wait a little longer, you know, like as if the story was unfolding.

[gowlerk 1,902]

42 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

How a country can have people spending life in jail for shoplifting and argue that the president should not be prosecuted for crimes is entirely too Banana Republic for me.

USA, the prison capital of the world. For some classes anyway. What about the show trials and lockups for the over privileged parents who bribed their kids in to the best schools? If you can't do the crime don't do the crime. I heard that somewhere. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

USA, the prison capital of the world. For some classes anyway. What about the show trials and lockups for the over privileged parents who bribed their kids in to the best schools? If you can't do the crime don't do the crime. I heard that somewhere. 

Hi Ken,

I believe it is:  If you cannot do the time, don't do the crime.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 1,902]

9 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

I believe it is:  If you cannot do the time, don't do the crime.

Jerry Baumchen

Proof read Ken, proof read. That's two errors in one session for me.

Edited November 24, 2020 by gowlerk

[JoeWeber 2,294]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Proof read Ken, proof read. That's two errors in one session for me.

 

11 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

I believe it is:  If you cannot do the time, don't do the crime.

Jerry Baumchen

Jerry, you leave Ken alone. I like him. Verstehen?

[gowlerk 1,902]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

 

Jerry, you leave Ken alone. I like him. Verstehen?

Joe and Jerry, I believe you two actually know each other in the real world, correct?

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

16 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Joe and Jerry, I believe you two actually know each other in the real world, correct?

Hi Ken,

Yup, probably for more years than either of us can remember.

And, just so you know; I was only trying to help.

And, I am also a terrible on-screen proof reader.

Jerry Baumchen

Edited November 24, 2020 by JerryBaumchen

[SkyDekker 1,120]

44 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You're just being argumentative for the fun of it.

Yes, kind of the point of this part of the forum.

 

[gowlerk 1,902]

13 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

Yup, probably for more years than either of us can remember.

And, just so you know; I was only trying to help.

And, I am also a terrible on-screen proof reader.

Jerry Baumchen

I appreciate the help, and I'm sure Joe was only kidding. I hope I never come between the two of you and whatever relationship you have after all those years.