Religious Authoritarianism Has America nailed to its Cross

[JoeWeber 2,294]

On 1/12/2021 at 9:58 AM, Phil1111 said:

The Proud Boys, other white supremacists, together with the usual mix of MAGA supporters have become full co-worshipers with evangelicals. While corporations, political leaders including GOP senators have broke from trump. Evangelicals continue their trump allegiance.

How White Evangelical Christians Fused With Trump Extremism.  "A potent mix of grievance and religious fervor has turbocharged the support among Trump loyalists, many of whom describe themselves as participants in a kind of holy war.

Before self-proclaimed members of the far-right group the Proud Boys marched toward the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, they stopped to kneel in the street and prayed in the name of Jesus.

The group, whose participants have espoused misogynistic and anti-immigrant views, prayed for God to bring “reformation and revival.” They gave thanks for “the wonderful nation we’ve all been blessed to be in.” They asked God for the restoration of their “value systems,” and for the “courage and strength to both represent you and represent our culture well.” And they invoked the divine protection for what was to come.

Then they rose. Their leader declared into a bullhorn that the media must “get the hell out of my way.” And then they moved toward the Capitol."

This is rich:

Ed Stetzer, head of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College, tells NPR that he was very disturbed to see so many self-professed evangelicals taking part in the deadly riots last week at the Capitol building that were designed to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

"Part of this reckoning is: How did we get here?" he said. "How were we so easily fooled by conspiracy theories? We need to make clear who we are. And our allegiance is to King Jesus, not to what boasting political leader might come next."

 

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

This is rich:

Ed Stetzer, head of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College,.... And our allegiance is to King Jesus, not to what boasting political leader might come next."

 

I think this guy is an excetion. By happenstance you've discovered what appears to be the only evangelical ever! To have the teachings of Christ at the center of his thought. How he has kept his job at the Franklin Graham(billy-bob's son) school of racism and sexual deviancy is unknown to me.

It appears as if Ed Stetzer,is a evangelical deviant in the mold of Mitt Romney. I had no idea they existed.

Fellow evangelicals: stop falling for Trump’s anti-immigrant rhetoric. from Nov 6, 2018

It’s un-Christian to demonize the pilgrim.

From a CNN interview

'Q: How much of evangelicals’ concern is driven by the sense that America is becoming less of a white, Christian nation?

A: That’s a huge part of it. But when I hear people say, “I want to take my country back,” I wonder, back to what? Because the height of religiosity was in the 1950s, and I don’t know many people of color or women who want to go back to the ‘50s.

The other thing is that God doesn’t have a country. We have to stop thinking like we are the “new Israel.” Christian leaders have to disciple people away from that belief."

and "Ed Stetzer is grappling with a moral crisis. Stetzer, the director of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College, is preaching the Gospel to his fellow Christians. And they’re not listening. "

[Dr.SkyFall 28]

On 12/31/2020 at 3:34 PM, BIGUN said:

Incorrect. It is the responsibility of the writer to ensure the interpretation is fully understood by the reader.  

SO if I understand this post to mean that you have a small penis (hypothetically of course) thats your fault

[kallend 1,620]

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

I think this guy is an excetion.

First reading I thought this was a typo for "excretion".  On reading the rest I now figure it is a typo for "exception".

[NewGuy2005 51]

On 12/31/2020 at 7:36 AM, jaybird18c said:

Interesting note for the willfully ignorant here.  The focus of Paul Washer's missions was not flooding a country with "european" missionaries.  I was certainly not forcing them into anything.  They train indigenous persons to evangelize their own people.

Fixed it for you.

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

First reading I thought this was a typo for "excretion".  On reading the rest I now figure it is a typo for "exception".

I'll hire you as my spellcheck and phononics proof reader

[Phil1111 908]

From an NYT Editorial today.

“conservative preacher Jeremiah Johnson....Over the last 72 hours, I have received multiple death threats and thousands upon thousands of emails from Christians saying the nastiest and most vulgar things I have ever heard toward my family and ministry. I have been labeled a coward, sellout, a traitor to the Holy Spirit, and cussed out at least 500 times.”

This is the beginning of a Facebook post from Sunday by the conservative preacher Jeremiah Johnson. On Jan. 7, the day after the storming of the Capitol, Johnson had issued a public apology, asserting that God removed Donald Trump from office because of his pride and arrogance, and to humble those, like Johnson, who had fervently supported him....

To my great heartache, I’m convinced parts of the prophetic/charismatic movement are far SICKER than I could have ever dreamed of.”

This is what is happening inside evangelical Christianity and within conservatism right now."

An evangelical christian threatening the life of another over trump.Threatening his family and church. Yes Lucifer did good with trump and hell will be ready there, there will be room.

[BIGUN 1,048]

On 1/13/2021 at 5:05 PM, Dr.SkyFall said:

SO if I understand this post to mean that you have a small penis (hypothetically of course) thats your fault

One is medical science, the other is social science. Were you drunk when you wrote that? 

[Dr.SkyFall 28]

On 1/15/2021 at 7:38 PM, BIGUN said:

One is medical science, the other is social science. Were you drunk when you wrote that? 

If I read your post and understand it to be you saying you have a small penis, the misunderstanding is your fault. I'm talking about the meaning of your statements, No idea why you brought medical science into this.

 

And no I wasn't but shit I could use a drink now

[BIGUN 1,048]

 

12 hours ago, Dr.SkyFall said:

If I read your post and understand it to be you saying you have a small penis, the misunderstanding is your fault. I'm talking about the meaning of your statements, No idea why you brought medical science into this.

You and Brent will get along famously. 

[billvon 2,380]

13 hours ago, Dr.SkyFall said:

If I read your post and understand it to be you saying you have a small penis, the misunderstanding is your fault.

You made your point.  Post this again and you'll see a ban.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

You and Brent will get along famously. 

Nevertheless, he is right. It is the argument you made, and repeated several times so there was no room for misunderstanding, that interpretation of a passage is solely the writers responsibility. If he reads something you wrote and decides it means what he said, then it's your fault that he decided that.

[BIGUN 1,048]

21 hours ago, jakee said:

It is the argument you made, and repeated several times so there was no room for misunderstanding, that interpretation of a passage is solely the writers responsibility. If he reads something you wrote and decides it means what he said, then it's your fault that he decided that.

I'm talking about "Effective Communication." One process involves sending messages, and the other involves receiving messages. The responsibility of communication lies with the sender and the sender must factor in all types of scenarios, the environment, generational gaps, cultural differences. language barriers, along with the method of delivery, etc. The goal is to ensure that >90% of the audience (receivers) get the message intended. 

What you're talking about is the responsibility of the receiver to address any uncertainty and they should respond with appropriate questions. If the discussion is about environmental geology, specifically melting glaciers and someone asks you a question about that topic, then you answer it and make a note to ensure you cover that in the next discussion.  Consider it a form of communication six sigma.

 

[wmw999 2,116]

Just now, BIGUN said:

I'm talking about "Effective Communication." One process involves sending messages, and the other involves receiving messages. The responsibility of communication lies with the sender and the sender must factor in all types of scenarios, the environment, generational gaps, cultural differences. language barriers, along with the method of delivery, etc. The goal is to ensure that >90% of the audience (receivers) get the message intended. 

What you're talking about is the responsibility of the receiver to address any uncertainty and they should respond with appropriate questions. If the discussion is about environmental geology, specifically melting glaciers and someone asks you a question about that topic, then you answer it and make a note to ensure you cover that in the next discussion.  Consider it a form of communication six sigma.

 

I used to write software requirements; the onus was entirely on the writer in those cases. However, there was a more limited audience for software requirements as well (although the testers did try to misinterpret them realistically as often as possible). 
In a less circumscribed community, it might be that due diligence is met by a statement up front of the intended audience, and it might be that intentional or bad faith misunderstanding is really the fault of the receiver. 
And to me it depends on the purpose of the communication — fiction is often enhanced by a variety of interpretations (and think of all the language teachers who wouldn’t be able to analyze Dickens, Tolstoy, or Ionesco). 
Me, I see the grays all the time; makes for less debate, but I’m ok with that, too.

Wendy P. 

[BIGUN 1,048]

3 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

and it might be that intentional or bad faith misunderstanding is really the fault of the receiver. 

True. We have seen that on here more than once. 

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

What you're talking about is the responsibility of the receiver to address any uncertainty and they should respond with appropriate questions.

Given that this is a discussion about the bible how do you propose the receiver presents those questions to the author?

Further, you realise that you gave no indication of this in your original post and the two subsequent clarifications of it, and that Skyfall's apparently mistaken interpretation of your posts is still your responsibility?

[BIGUN 1,048]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Given that this is a discussion about the bible how do you propose the receiver presents those questions to the author?

As with any subject; you ask the scholar who's teaching it.

Quote

Further, you realise that you gave no indication of this in your original post and the two subsequent clarifications of it, and that Skyfall's apparently mistaken interpretation of your posts is still your responsibility?

OK. we'll go with that.

Edited January 27, 2021 by BIGUN

[jakee 1,254]

Just now, BIGUN said:

As with any subject; you ask the scholar who's teaching it.

The scholar didn't write it, so why is it his responsibility? Not to mention that you'll never find a single bible passage that all scholars agree on, so if the interpretation is purely the responsibility of the writer then how can it possibly be another scholar who would help the would be scholar with the interpretation?

This is the opposite of what you were saying before.

Quote

OK. we'll go with that.

Because it's true.

[ryoder 1,380]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I'm talking about "Effective Communication." One process involves sending messages, and the other involves receiving messages. The responsibility of communication lies with the sender and the sender must factor in all types of scenarios, the environment, generational gaps, cultural differences. language barriers, along with the method of delivery, etc. The goal is to ensure that >90% of the audience (receivers) get the message intended. 

 

A rather scathing indictment of Q drops, eh?

[billvon 2,380]

8 minutes ago, ryoder said:

A rather scathing indictment of Q drops, eh?

Q is not what you think
Stand back for 17->12
Deception is valor in disquise

[wmw999 2,116]

45 minutes ago, billvon said:

Q is not what you think
Stand back for 17->12
Deception is valor in disquise

Bill, getting in on the Quaction...

Wendy P.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

11 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Bill, getting in on the Quaction...

Wendy P.

Well, if it involves 'quacking', or 'quaction', then Bill would be the perfect guy for it, now wouldn't he?

[SkyDekker 1,120]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

The scholar didn't write it, so why is it his responsibility? Not to mention that you'll never find a single bible passage that all scholars agree on, so if the interpretation is purely the responsibility of the writer then how can it possibly be another scholar who would help the would be scholar with the interpretation?

This is the opposite of what you were saying before.

When you assume the bible is the communication, which may not be valid. As you point out, we have to rely on the interpretation of the bible. When the interpretation becomes the communication, the scholar becomes responsible for the proper and clear communication of their interpretation.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I'm talking about "Effective Communication." One process involves sending messages, and the other involves receiving messages. The responsibility of communication lies with the sender and the sender must factor in all types of scenarios, the environment, generational gaps, cultural differences. language barriers, along with the method of delivery, etc. The goal is to ensure that >90% of the audience (receivers) get the message intended. 

What you're talking about is the responsibility of the receiver to address any uncertainty and they should respond with appropriate questions. If the discussion is about environmental geology, specifically melting glaciers and someone asks you a question about that topic, then you answer it and make a note to ensure you cover that in the next discussion.  Consider it a form of communication six sigma.

 

Man, that to me is a very parochial analysis. The writer/explainer does their best but the capabilities of the reader to understand the message are also determinant. It well could be my general lack of capacities but there are many things I've needed to re-read to even start to get the message. I suppose that's why I'm not on the Alien communications team at SETI.

[jakee 1,254]

8 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

When you assume the bible is the communication, which may not be valid. As you point out, we have to rely on the interpretation of the bible. When the interpretation becomes the communication, the scholar becomes responsible for the proper and clear communication of their interpretation.

But we're not assuming. Bigun said the writer was responsible for the reader's interpretation. The scholar of the writings is not the writer.