Religious Authoritarianism Has America nailed to its Cross

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

If you say so, but what does it have to do with the stuff Phil just said?

Nothing. Unless you call spending donation money on political activism "free exercise of religion". 
And that political activism is simply another way of forcing that religion on everyone.

I have no problems with religious organizations using their money to further political purposes...

As long as they give up their tax-exempt status when they do so.

[wmw999 2,116]

Navigating the line between “freedom of religion” and “freedom to break the law” isn’t clear, is it? 

Making a law that targets a particular religion is pretty solidly illegal (yes, even if it’s Islam). Making a religion to bypass a particular law doesn’t really pass the sniff test, either (which is why Rastafarianism and some Native religions became popular because of their integrated drug use). And breaking a secular law and saying it’s because of religion (like the lobbying one) also doesn’t work. 
Wendy P. 

[billvon 2,380]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Navigating the line between “freedom of religion” and “freedom to break the law” isn’t clear, is it?

That's it!  I'm going to start a religion based on space aliens and some stuff about how people have superpowers.  Everything will be very expensive for believers, and one of the tenets of my religion will require me to purchase airplanes and boats for use in our ceremonies.

Think anyone would buy it?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

That's it!  I'm going to start a religion based on space aliens and some stuff about how people have superpowers.  Everything will be very expensive for believers, and one of the tenets of my religion will require me to purchase airplanes and boats for use in our ceremonies.

Think anyone would buy it?

They sue at the drop of a hat.

You think they wouldn't file a bunch of lawsuits to shut you down?

It's all copyrighted. They'd have a pretty strong infringement case.

[murps2000 86]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

That's it!  I'm going to start a religion based on space aliens and some stuff about how people have superpowers.  Everything will be very expensive for believers, and one of the tenets of my religion will require me to purchase airplanes and boats for use in our ceremonies.

Think anyone would buy it?

Like skydiving & wake boarding kind of ceremonies? I'm interested.

[billvon 2,380]

1 hour ago, murps2000 said:

Like skydiving & wake boarding kind of ceremonies? I'm interested.

Not unless you become a Level 17 Sky Awareness Acolyte.  Then you get the free CASA jumps and the T-shirt.  But to get there you're going to have to go on a whole lot of Awareness Cruises.  Have your credit card # ready.

[jaybird18c 4]

21 hours ago, timski said:

 

JESUS H CHRIST! Another Ron thumper. You live in Georgia too??? Asking for a friend.

I don't live in Georgia.  Are you generalizing/stereotyping?

Edited December 30, 2020 by jaybird18c

[JoeWeber 2,294]

On 12/29/2020 at 7:29 PM, billvon said:

That's it!  I'm going to start a religion based on space aliens and some stuff about how people have superpowers.  Everything will be very expensive for believers, and one of the tenets of my religion will require me to purchase airplanes and boats for use in our ceremonies.

Think anyone would buy it?

Sign me up.

 

[ryoder 1,381]

On 12/29/2020 at 4:29 PM, billvon said:

That's it!  I'm going to start a religion based on space aliens and some stuff about how people have superpowers.  Everything will be very expensive for believers, and one of the tenets of my religion will require me to purchase airplanes and boats for use in our ceremonies.

Think anyone would buy it?

Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, and Jenna Elfman would.

Leah Remini might be a tough sell.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Over the course of history I’m sure that religion has been the most profitable business ever.

Edited December 31, 2020 by gowlerk

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Over the course of history I’m sure that religion has been the most profitable business ever.

Faith economy worth $1.2tn a year – more than combined revenues of 10 biggest tech firms in America, study shows

Gives new meaning to a giant sucking sound.

You have Jet fuel for the private jets, pilot salaries for a GV5 captain can be $140k a year and up.Sound stages, broadcast cameras, etc.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Phil1111

[jaybird18c 4]

Then you have people you've probably never heard of such as Paul Washer who was a missionary working on a shoestring  budget who risked his life taking the message of the gospel to remote peoples in the Andes Mountains of Peru.

Edited December 31, 2020 by jaybird18c

[gowlerk 1,903]

5 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Then you have people you've probably never heard of such as Paul Washer who was a missionary working on a shoestring  budget who risked his life taking the message of the gospel to remote peoples in the Andes Mountains of Peru.

Because the more primitive a society is, the easier it is for people like Paul to fool them. Then he can feel good about himself. Unlike you who merely toils in forums like this with no effect at all except to fool yourself.

[jaybird18c 4]

4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Because the more primitive a society is, the easier it is for people like Paul to fool them. Then he can feel good about himself. Unlike you who merely toils in forums like this with no effect at all except to fool yourself.

Think he was doing it for the money?

[gowlerk 1,903]

3 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Think he was doing it for the money?

No, some men do those things for the feeling of righteousness it gives them. Not all are about money. Doesn't change the fact that all organized religion is about power at it's root.

[jaybird18c 4]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

No, some men do those things for the feeling of righteousness it gives them. Not all are about money. Doesn't change the fact that all organized religion is about power at it's root.

That's a generalization and is pretty judgmental about a person I doubt you know much about.

[gowlerk 1,903]

1 minute ago, jaybird18c said:

That's a generalization and is pretty judgmental about a person I doubt you know much about.

Coming from the man who insists that I am "fallen".

[Phil1111 908]

44 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Then you have people you've probably never heard of such as Paul Washer who was a missionary working on a shoestring  budget who risked his life taking the message of the gospel to remote peoples in the Andes Mountains of Peru.

MEXICO CITY, May 6 2005 (IPS) - Indigenous communities throughout Latin America are facing the loss of their cultural traditions, divisive conflicts, and in some cases even bloodshed, all in the name of God.

Many of the frictions stem from the hundreds of religions and sects that have taken root in these communities, ranging from large, established denominations like the Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Adventist, Baptist and Mormon to newer, lesser-known groups like the Church of the Word, the Fountain of Life, Alpha Omega and the Guardians of the Holy Sepulchre.

"Whatever religion they try to inculcate us with, it will have an impact in spiritual terms, which is in a way our Achilles heel, since most of us indigenous peoples approach life from a spiritual level," Luis Macas, a Saragura Indian and president of the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador, remarked to IPS.

Among the 40 million indigenous people who live in Latin America today, the most prevalent religion is still Roman Catholicism, forcibly and often violently imposed by the European "conquerors" in the 15th and 16th centuries through the complete annihilation or partial assimilation of pre-Columbian religious beliefs and practices.

But over the years, other religions have come to compete for the "souls" of the region’s aboriginal peoples, especially during the 20th century, in an often rocky coexistence with the Catholic Church.

In the last 30 years, the Tzotzil Mayan indigenous community of Chamula in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas has been shaken by 100 deaths resulting from religious conflicts."

[gowlerk 1,903]

8 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

MEXICO CITY, May 6 2005 (IPS) - Indigenous communities throughout Latin America are facing the loss of their cultural traditions, divisive conflicts, and in some cases even bloodshed, all in the name of God.

Many of the frictions stem from the hundreds of religions and sects that have taken root in these communities, ranging from large, established denominations like the Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Adventist, Baptist and Mormon to newer, lesser-known groups like the Church of the Word, the Fountain of Life, Alpha Omega and the Guardians of the Holy Sepulchre.

"Whatever religion they try to inculcate us with, it will have an impact in spiritual terms, which is in a way our Achilles heel, since most of us indigenous peoples approach life from a spiritual level," Luis Macas, a Saragura Indian and president of the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador, remarked to IPS.

Among the 40 million indigenous people who live in Latin America today, the most prevalent religion is still Roman Catholicism, forcibly and often violently imposed by the European "conquerors" in the 15th and 16th centuries through the complete annihilation or partial assimilation of pre-Columbian religious beliefs and practices.

But over the years, other religions have come to compete for the "souls" of the region’s aboriginal peoples, especially during the 20th century, in an often rocky coexistence with the Catholic Church.

In the last 30 years, the Tzotzil Mayan indigenous community of Chamula in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas has been shaken by 100 deaths resulting from religious conflicts."

Good old European traditions. 

[jaybird18c 4]

8 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

MEXICO CITY, May 6 2005 (IPS) - Indigenous communities throughout Latin America are facing the loss of their cultural traditions, divisive conflicts, and in some cases even bloodshed, all in the name of God.

Many of the frictions stem from the hundreds of religions and sects that have taken root in these communities, ranging from large, established denominations like the Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Adventist, Baptist and Mormon to newer, lesser-known groups like the Church of the Word, the Fountain of Life, Alpha Omega and the Guardians of the Holy Sepulchre.

"Whatever religion they try to inculcate us with, it will have an impact in spiritual terms, which is in a way our Achilles heel, since most of us indigenous peoples approach life from a spiritual level," Luis Macas, a Saragura Indian and president of the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador, remarked to IPS.

Among the 40 million indigenous people who live in Latin America today, the most prevalent religion is still Roman Catholicism, forcibly and often violently imposed by the European "conquerors" in the 15th and 16th centuries through the complete annihilation or partial assimilation of pre-Columbian religious beliefs and practices.

But over the years, other religions have come to compete for the "souls" of the region’s aboriginal peoples, especially during the 20th century, in an often rocky coexistence with the Catholic Church.

In the last 30 years, the Tzotzil Mayan indigenous community of Chamula in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas has been shaken by 100 deaths resulting from religious conflicts."

Interesting note for the willfully ignorant here.  The focus of Paul Washer's missions was not flooding a country with "european" missionaries.  I was certainly not forcing them into anything.  They train indigenous persons to lead their own people.

[Phil1111 908]

5 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Interesting note for the willfully ignorant here.  The focus of Paul Washer's missions was not flooding a country with "european" missionaries.  I was certainly not forcing them into anything.  They train indigenous persons to lead their own people.

The willfully ignorant attempt to use a broad brush. To conceal the misdeeds and crimes of the group. They ignore, cover up and forget what they did. What others continue to do in order to enrich, conceal and take advantage of the flock.

When did the christian church ever criticize or attack those within the religion. Who use donations to enrich themselves. To justify private jets and lavish lifestyles. While peddling he life, the values and teachings of Jesus?

[jaybird18c 4]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

When did the christian church ever criticize or attack those within the religion. Who use donations to enrich themselves. To justify private jets and lavish lifestyles. While peddling he life, the values and teachings of Jesus?

There is constant criticism of the blatant unbiblical deception and hypocrisy in many of the groups you mentioned.  There is a difference between "The wheat and the tares."  There is a catholic (not the Roman Catholic meaning of the word), universal body of believers, a remnant, those transformed by the power of the gospel, regardless of church or denomination, location, ethnicity, skin color, finance, background, etc.  

As long as you're satisfied with a verse here and a verse there to support your objections without digging below the surface to understand the theology behind them, you will continue, as I said before, to remain willfully ignorant.  That's ok with me because I know you're not really serious in your consideration of the topic anyway.

A systematic, comprehensive, and much more reasonable approach is NOT to come to the bible with preconceptions and bias but to listen to the Word of God in all its particulars, in all of its detail, and then try and discern how all of these individual truths fit together.

Edited December 31, 2020 by jaybird18c

[gowlerk 1,903]

Interpreting your Bible is like interpreting your constitution. Are you an originality or modernist? Each and every person gets to be there own expert.

[jaybird18c 4]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Interpreting your Bible is like interpreting your constitution. Are you an originality or modernist? Each and every person gets to be there own 

The idea is NOT to insert your meaning into what an author writes (eisegesis).  The idea is to try and understand the author's meaning (exegesis).  Considerations include, author's intent, historical setting, audience, grammar, context, etc.

[ryoder 1,381]

13 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Interpreting your Bible is like interpreting your constitution. Are you an originality or modernist? Each and every person gets to be there own expert.

I'd argue that interpreting the constitution is easier, because at least the people arguing about it, are not arguing over a document that was translated from another language.