The Biden team/administration

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

44 minutes ago, obelixtim said:

I've been in many discussions at national level meetings with skydiving, (and work as well) where I have argued a contrary view when the rest of the quorum has been unanimous, often not because I necessarily disagreed with them, but because an opposing view promotes further examination and discussion of the issue. In some cases I flipped the whole room.

I found that in lots of situations, many people just follow the accepted ideas, because they don't have the critical thinking skills to fully analyse the issue, or they don't want to be seen to disagree with the powerful voices in the room.  I was a little unpopular at times, not that I gave a shit about that. It was no surprise that lots of times, I was approached by people after meetings who confided they agreed with me but were afraid to speak up. Ridiculous.

People who  take it personally when people disagree with them, really shouldn't be in decision making positions.

 

Hi tim,

Re:  ' In some cases I flipped the whole room.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Angry_Men_(1957_film)

Jerry Baumchen

[headoverheels 291]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

America has spent $6.4 trillion on wars in the Middle East and Asia since 2001, a new study says

And what did we get for it?  At least we got a lot of restaurants and nail salons from our Vietnam engagement.

[obelixtim 100]

9 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi tim,

Re:  ' In some cases I flipped the whole room.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Angry_Men_(1957_film)

Jerry Baumchen

 I remember seeing that movie when I was at high school back in the late 60s.  It provoked some discussion as I recall, which is what the teacher intended. Not sure if it particularly influenced me.

 I just like playing the devils advocate, sometimes just to piss the others off, especially those who are a bit cocksure of themselves. Its not really hard to find some angle to take, because a lot of people are so full of themselves they just expect everyone to fall in line. A lot of times they really don't stop to consider other points of view, so convinced are they of their position, and the righteousness of their views. 

I enjoy a good argument, particularly when up against someone who can counterpunch. What is surprising is the number of people who will just fall in line with someone who appears confident and strong.

Its unfortunate that there seems to be 70 million Americans like that at the moment.    

Edited November 11, 2020 by obelixtim

[wmw999 2,117]

I hate "good arguments," but I enjoy substantive conversation, and I often learn and figure out best by talking things out, so I enter gotchas into the conversation with context, which strengthens them.

And the final product ends up better, which is (or should be) the real goal. That's why defining the actual goal for a group is such an important early step.

Wendy P.

[Phil1111 908]

2 hours ago, obelixtim said:

 I remember seeing that movie when I was at high school back in the late 60s. ..

Its unfortunate that there seems to be 70 million Americans like that at the moment.    

There have been many psychological and sociological studies done on group thinking and group dynamics in decision making. Trial lawyers spend tens of thousand to attend special seminars on how to influence juries. How to identify potential jury leaders and their thinking before the trial starts.

Many studies done on how you can craft group thinking. Such that each person will want to show that they are more outraged than the next. Leading to more radical group decision making that what the mean position of the group was prior to the start of group discussions and interactions.

Asian societies have a natural deference to leaders and perceived leaders. So standing up to leaders is even more uncommon. Having said that trump and the GOP would indicate western society is not absent strong following behaviors.

Seventy one million GOP voters are not all meek followers. The Mother Jones story I recently quoted offer insight on the majority. Most never bother to make an effort to understand the issues. Or have a self interest that supersedes a national interest. Some will never develop the cognitive functions and political drive to ascertain the full scope larger issues like trade. The GOP is currently exploiting that.

[DougH 270]

12 hours ago, headoverheels said:

And what did we get for it?  At least we got a lot of restaurants and nail salons from our Vietnam engagement.

Nothing. Our country is worse off, our veterans are worse off, the region is much worse off. The defense contractors are rich, fat, and happy though. We still can't manage to get a well run VA for our soldiers that we maimed in the process. 

[gowlerk 1,903]

This guy here is being tapped to take over one of Jared's positions.

https://theprint.in/health/who-is-dr-vivek-murthy-the-indian-american-who-will-co-chair-bidens-covid-task-force/539732/