Potential for prosecution of Trump?

[gowlerk 1,902]

Personally I don't think there is any realistic possibility for a criminal case against DJT. But there has been a lot of talk in other threads about "lock him up". So, I'm asking here, just what would you have him charged with that may stick? Note, I am not asking about civil lawsuits which is entirely a different matter. I do suppose that tax evasion of some sort is a possibility, but I don't have a clear idea about it. And there has been loose talk about money laundering, but nothing concrete.

There are some strong feeling out there that he should be punished. But what exact criminal acts do you want him charged with?

[ryoder 1,380]

Lots of material here to start with: https://www.needtoimpeach.com/impeachable-offenses/

[Phil1111 908]

When Barr forces prosecutors from office, there's fire.

We don’t yet know what Mueller found, but here’s an overview of the president’s other legal jeopardy.

[gowlerk 1,902]

4 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Lots of material here to start with: https://www.needtoimpeach.com/impeachable-offenses/

I don't see anything there that would lead to a criminal prosecution. I can see technical possibilities, but mostly for things that no one has ever been prosecuted for in the past. Or if they are have they are marginal. Campaign finance laws in the US are pretty much a joke, at least at this level. The Foreign Emoluments Clause is vague at best and has never been tested.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

But what exact criminal acts do you want him charged with?

Just like any standard issue Trump against anything lawsuit, whatever comes to mind at the moment would work just fine. Let's start with obstruction of justice, add perjury and fraud and end up with knowing and willful violation of the local recycling laws. As previously stated, my hopes are on Letitia James and the SDNY.

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Edited November 7, 2020 by JoeWeber

[Phil1111 908]

14 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I don't see anything there that would lead to a criminal prosecution. I can see technical possibilities, but mostly for things that no one has ever been prosecuted for in the past. Or if they are have they are marginal. Campaign finance laws in the US are pretty much a joke, at least at this level. The Foreign Emoluments Clause is vague at best and has never been tested.

Keep in mind that defense of such actions are expensive. In addition for defendants like trump investigations can turn into very successful "fishing" expeditions. Perhaps a Go Fund Me campaign in favor of the NY AG office can start things. Then fines, settlements, etc. could keep the trump bleeding till 2-3 decades after he's dead.

"The people who have known him the longest are not surprised in the least. “He sues,” said Barbara Res, the Trump Tower construction manager and a former executive vice president of the Trump Organization. “That’s his M.O. He sues.”

“It’s just another tool in his war chest,” said Jack O’Donnell, the former president of the Trump Plaza casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey. “He uses it to wear people out, whether it’s financially or emotionally.”

“He’s used litigation historically to keep hostile forces at bay and to delay reckonings,” Trump biographer Tim O’Brien said. “He’s also used it to try to embarrass competitors, critics or opponents. And I think by and large he’s done that successfully. He’s the poster child for the abuses and inefficiencies of the American court system.”

[billvon 2,380]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Personally I don't think there is any realistic possibility for a criminal case against DJT. But there has been a lot of talk in other threads about "lock him up". So, I'm asking here, just what would you have him charged with that may stick?

Primarily tax fraud, bank fraud and insurance fraud.  

Trump faces a huge problem as he leaves office.  He is already being petulant and vindictive - and that's not going to endear himself to republican forces who otherwise might utilize him as a kingmaker.  "I support new GOP senator Jackie Stoneham, and I was robbed!  I should have won!  UNFAIR!" is not an angle the GOP is eager to use.

For a long time his power begat power; the more power he had, the more criminal activity he engaged in, which invariably brought him more power in the form of wealth/favors owed.  But now he's on the decline.  And the line that worked to silence E Jean Carroll - "Forget it! He has 200 lawyers. He’ll bury you" - will be less and less true over the next few years as his political power fades and lawsuits start to pile up.  And once the legal sharks smell blood in the water, all the people who were cheated by him over the years will see no downside for getting their piece back.

"When you're a star, they let you do it.  You can get away with anything."  Yep.  And the corollary is true as well.

 

[obelixtim 100]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

Primarily tax fraud, bank fraud and insurance fraud.  

Trump faces a huge problem as he leaves office.  He is already being petulant and vindictive - and that's not going to endear himself to republican forces who otherwise might utilize him as a kingmaker.  "I support new GOP senator Jackie Stoneham, and I was robbed!  I should have won!  UNFAIR!" is not an angle the GOP is eager to use.

For a long time his power begat power; the more power he had, the more criminal activity he engaged in, which invariably brought him more power in the form of wealth/favors owed.  But now he's on the decline.  And the line that worked to silence E Jean Carroll - "Forget it! He has 200 lawyers. He’ll bury you" - will be less and less true over the next few years as his political power fades and lawsuits start to pile up.  And once the legal sharks smell blood in the water, all the people who were cheated by him over the years will see no downside for getting their piece back.

"When you're a star, they let you do it.  You can get away with anything."  Yep.  And the corollary is true as well.

 

The sharks will be circling the rotting carcase. And his fair weather friends will disown him and run for the hills. Justice is coming. And he will deserve all that is coming to him.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

11 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I don't see anything there that would lead to a criminal prosecution. I can see technical possibilities, but mostly for things that no one has ever been prosecuted for in the past. Or if they are have they are marginal. Campaign finance laws in the US are pretty much a joke, at least at this level. The Foreign Emoluments Clause is vague at best and has never been tested.

Those are actions that should have resulted in his removal from office. Not all of them are crimes.

But, as far as 'criminal acts' go:

Michael Cohen went to prison. Trump was listed as an 'unindicted co-conspirator.'
The payment to the porn star was considered an illegal campaign donation.
The payment was embezzled from the Trump Foundation.

The payment was disguised as lawyers fees, which were then taken as a deductible expense on the taxes. 

While the 'campaign donation' is not going to be something super simple to get a conviction on, the other two are pretty much open & shut. Fairly serious felonies.

 

Then there are a variety of tax fraud, real estate fraud and bank fraud charges that the prosecutors in New York (federal, state and municipal) are all gathering a lot of evidence to prosecute. 
Trump has been fighting it for a long time. Most recently, he lost the court case where he tried to claim that the prosecutors couldn't investigate him (subpoena his tax records among other things) because he was president. His son has been dodging a subpoena for a deposition on one of these cases. 
All of this has been building for a while. 

The comparison to Nixon's pardon is not a very good one.

Nixon was a slimeball, no doubt about it. But he didn't come anywhere near Trump's criminal behavior. 
Nixon resigned in disgrace. He knew full well that an impeachment trial in the Senate would have resulted in his expulsion from office. 
Trump, OTOH, is still trying to convince his moron followers that he should be declared the winner. 

There's an inscription on the Supreme Court. "Equal Justice Under the Law". 

Trump should face the same justice anyone else would. 

Not 'rich man's justice'. 

[wmw999 2,116]

I do think we should leave it up to NY state. It’s almost as banana republic to be seen as going after the previous “ruler” as to install him for life. 
But then again I’m not a big fan of the “fuck you I won” MO. Because it too often leads to (and results from) the “whatever it takes, winning is the only thing” attitude.
The American people (all of them, not just the democrats) are supposed to be the goal here  

Wendy P. 

[jakee 1,254]

35 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I do think we should leave it up to NY state.

Isn't that what everyone is saying?

Quote

It’s almost as banana republic to be seen as going after the previous “ruler” as to install him for life.

Deciding who should be accountable to the law on the basis of how it will be seen politically is banana republic.

Quote

The American people (all of them, not just the democrats) are supposed to be the goal here

The American people are served by holding their leaders accountable to the law just like everyone else. They are not served by placing successful politicians in a seperate class of uber-privilege that gives them protection from the consequences of illegal actions.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

5 hours ago, wmw999 said:

It’s almost as banana republic to be seen as going after the previous “ruler” as to install him for life. 

That's forcing the point. No one is suggesting making trumped up charges where no wrong doing exists. But it cannot be either or; there must be limits and the crimes must be real. For example, if it is found out that he treasonously gave Putin classified information during their private tête à tête's would you still think it wrong to charge him? What about provable perjury in a federal investigation? We are in this mess from going high when they go low. This time, for the sake of the Republic, we need to send a loud and clear message that we have an Executive not a King in America and don't think you'll be getting off scott free if you hurt the nation.

That and by his own words only Trump would have installed Trump as President for life. 

 

[Faicon9493 114]

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