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billvon

Gaslighting as a strategy

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23 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You'll be at 100 weasels, the thread will be locked, Ivanka will be President and he still won't budge. He's praising and witnessing now. No concession is possible.

But who will give up first? spacer.png jakee is brilliant at beating a dead horse. But Coreece insists upon mouth to mouth in a vain attempt to bring that dead horse back to life.

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58 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

No concession is possible.

I can concede that it's not necessarily intellectually dishonest to hold the view that "ending" means "ended" on this particular issue.

Can you guys agree with the politifact article I posted earlier or do you think they're weasling too?

 

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/oct/28/did-white-house-say-pandemic-over/

As a point of grammar, "ending the COVID-19 pandemic" can be read two ways. It could mean that the pandemic is over, which it isn’t. But the phrase could also mean that the country is in the process of ending the pandemic. That’s different.

The money spent on research and testing has provided more tools that hold some promise of beating back the virus. In that light, there have been gains.

It’s reasonable to say that some White House staffer went beyond what the authors of the report wrote, and pushed the envelope in wordsmithing the press release.

It’s not a slam-dunk to say that the White House was asserting "Mission Accomplished."

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10 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I can concede that it's not necessarily intellectually dishonest to hold the view that "ending" means "ended" on this particular issue.

You can? That's damn generous of you. I'd say the topic is officially dead ended.

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9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:
21 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I can concede that it's not necessarily intellectually dishonest to hold the view that "ending" means "ended" on this particular issue.

You can? That's damn generous of you. I'd say the topic is officially dead ended.

What about the politifact link I posted?  Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel?

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14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You can? That's damn generous of you. I'd say the topic is officially dead ended.

 

2 minutes ago, Coreece said:

What about the politifact link I posted?  Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel?

spacer.png

Joe is very very sleepy now, What happens when sailors can't keep their eyes open at 0400.

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Trump Jr echoes his dad:

"These people are truly morons . . . I keep hearing about new infections.  Well why aren't they talking about deaths?  Oh!  Oh!  Because the number is almost nothing! . . . If you look at that, look at my Instagram, it's gone to nothi . . . almost nothing."

Total dead to date from COVID-19: 228,909

Total dead YESTERDAY: 1047

Gaslighting in its truest form.  You're a moron unless you think 228,909 deaths are almost nothing - and over 1000 deaths the day before is nothing.

 

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(edited)
27 minutes ago, Coreece said:

What about the politifact link I posted?  Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel?

No, I don't because of this from the report:

"As a point of grammar, "ending the COVID-19 pandemic" can be read two ways. It could mean that the pandemic is over, which it isn’t. But the phrase could also mean that the country is in the process of ending the pandemic. That’s different."

I disagree with the writers conclusion because it's simply dumb. Ending and the process of ending are two entirely different claims that a writer would make for entirely different reasons. Intentional obfuscation or intentional honesty, for example. By choosing ending the author was making a conscious choice, in my view, designed to offer argumentative wiggle room after the fact. 

 

Edited by JoeWeber

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26 minutes ago, Coreece said:

What about the politifact link I posted?  Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel?

Can you agree with my description of Obama's accomplishments?

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Trump yesterday: "Voters are judging me on a lot of things, and one of the things we’ve done a really good job on is Covid."

US is #1 in total cases out of 195 countries

US is #1 in total deaths out of 195 countries

US is #12 in cases per capita (top 6%)

US is #10 in deaths per capita (top 5%)

Again - gaslighting.  Repeat the lie often enough and people start believing it.

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(edited)

One way to look at the death number is this:  Compare Covid deaths to the Vietnam War. 

  • In the last eight months, we've already lost more than FOUR TIMES the number of our citizens to Covid than we did in the entire ten years of the Vietnam War, and it shows no sign of slowing yet. 
     
  • About every six-eight weeks, due to Covid, we lose the total number of citizens that we did in the full measure of that war. 

Vietnam tore the country apart. Mass protests, the Kent State University shootings, people wrote songs, burned their draft cards, fled to Canada, etc. 

Covid, my friends, is MUCH worse. As far as Trump goes, and his handling of this crisis, he's the kind of guy who can make you not only stop talking bad about George Bush or Ronald Reagan, but make you wish THEY were President again. 

Quote

"Bill...George...ANYTHING but SUE!"

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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19 hours ago, jakee said:

Can you agree with my description of Obama's accomplishments?

I can agree that it concisely reflects your perception of the press release's fragmented text by structuring it into one complete sentence that's not fluently expressed in the press release.

We could dig into further, but I'm afraid we'd just be rehashing the same arguments that do nothing to reconcile the ambiguity of the text more that what we already have.  If you can simply agree with Webs that there's at least some wiggle room there, then I'm good with that.

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20 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

By choosing ending the author was making a conscious choice, in my view, designed to offer argumentative wiggle room after the fact. 

 But you at least agree there IS wiggle room.  Whether or not it's just a case of Hanlon's razor is another issue, as is with the veracity of claims found in the actual OSTP report.

 

20 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

By choosing ending the author was making a conscious choice

Ok, let's try this.  Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic."  You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic.  What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release?

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1 minute ago, Coreece said:

 But you at least agree there IS wiggle room.  Whether or not it's just a case of Hanlon's razor is another issue, as is with the veracity of claims found in the actual OSTP report.

 

Ok, let's try this.  Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic."  You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic.  What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release?

Aren't you in advertising? Do you really believe the report was written first and then the department of Trump Honesty worked through the night on the best, most truthful and conforming title? 

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9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Aren't you in advertising? Do you really believe the report was written first and then the department of Trump Honesty worked through the night on the best, most truthful and conforming title? 

You know the Bermuda Triangle is dead ahead. Then you hoist topsails.The crew must act.

spacer.png

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16 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Ok, let's try this.  Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic."  You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic.  What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release?

Almost any other word. But when you consider that we lead the world in both infections and deaths, and we’re #3 in population, and significantly lower than that in density, I’m not sure I’d put that up high. 
Maybe “closed inputs to country in response to Covid” (thereby also appealing to the Stephen Miller fans). But in considering the actual effectiveness (even given this was going to be a bad country for it), that might shouldn’t have been addressed at all. 
Wendy P. 

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30 minutes ago, wmw999 said:
52 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Ok, let's try this.  Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic."  You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic.  What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release?

Almost any other word. But when you consider that we lead the world in both infections and deaths, and we’re #3 in population, and significantly lower than that in density, I’m not sure I’d put that up high. 
Maybe “closed inputs to country in response to Covid”

I understand what you are saying, but that's still only one of several items discussed in the report.  They're not going to list all of them in the press release.  If you were to summarize what the report says with regard to what they did, what they're doing and what they're going to do to end it, wouldn't it all fit nicely under the category of "ending the covid-19 pandemic?"

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