JoeWeber 2,265 #51 October 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, kallend said: I think we're up to 7 weasels now. You'll be at 100 weasels, the thread will be locked, Ivanka will be President and he still won't budge. He's praising and witnessing now. No concession is possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 896 #52 October 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: You'll be at 100 weasels, the thread will be locked, Ivanka will be President and he still won't budge. He's praising and witnessing now. No concession is possible. But who will give up first? jakee is brilliant at beating a dead horse. But Coreece insists upon mouth to mouth in a vain attempt to bring that dead horse back to life. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #53 October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, jakee said: So what does accomplishments mean? Because they said that. Give him a second while he looks up alternative definitions. Surely there must be one that's unclear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #54 October 30, 2020 58 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: No concession is possible. I can concede that it's not necessarily intellectually dishonest to hold the view that "ending" means "ended" on this particular issue. Can you guys agree with the politifact article I posted earlier or do you think they're weasling too? https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/oct/28/did-white-house-say-pandemic-over/ As a point of grammar, "ending the COVID-19 pandemic" can be read two ways. It could mean that the pandemic is over, which it isn’t. But the phrase could also mean that the country is in the process of ending the pandemic. That’s different. The money spent on research and testing has provided more tools that hold some promise of beating back the virus. In that light, there have been gains. It’s reasonable to say that some White House staffer went beyond what the authors of the report wrote, and pushed the envelope in wordsmithing the press release. It’s not a slam-dunk to say that the White House was asserting "Mission Accomplished." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,265 #55 October 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Coreece said: I can concede that it's not necessarily intellectually dishonest to hold the view that "ending" means "ended" on this particular issue. You can? That's damn generous of you. I'd say the topic is officially dead ended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #56 October 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: 21 minutes ago, Coreece said: I can concede that it's not necessarily intellectually dishonest to hold the view that "ending" means "ended" on this particular issue. You can? That's damn generous of you. I'd say the topic is officially dead ended. What about the politifact link I posted? Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 896 #57 October 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: You can? That's damn generous of you. I'd say the topic is officially dead ended. 2 minutes ago, Coreece said: What about the politifact link I posted? Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel? Joe is very very sleepy now, What happens when sailors can't keep their eyes open at 0400. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,265 #58 October 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: Joe is very very sleepy now, What happens when sailors can't keep their eyes open at 0400. No kidding. On the water we call 9pm sailors midnight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #59 October 30, 2020 Trump Jr echoes his dad: "These people are truly morons . . . I keep hearing about new infections. Well why aren't they talking about deaths? Oh! Oh! Because the number is almost nothing! . . . If you look at that, look at my Instagram, it's gone to nothi . . . almost nothing." Total dead to date from COVID-19: 228,909 Total dead YESTERDAY: 1047 Gaslighting in its truest form. You're a moron unless you think 228,909 deaths are almost nothing - and over 1000 deaths the day before is nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,265 #60 October 30, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Coreece said: What about the politifact link I posted? Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel? No, I don't because of this from the report: "As a point of grammar, "ending the COVID-19 pandemic" can be read two ways. It could mean that the pandemic is over, which it isn’t. But the phrase could also mean that the country is in the process of ending the pandemic. That’s different." I disagree with the writers conclusion because it's simply dumb. Ending and the process of ending are two entirely different claims that a writer would make for entirely different reasons. Intentional obfuscation or intentional honesty, for example. By choosing ending the author was making a conscious choice, in my view, designed to offer argumentative wiggle room after the fact. Edited October 30, 2020 by JoeWeber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,241 #61 October 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, Coreece said: What about the politifact link I posted? Can you say that you agree with it, or are you afraid of being called a weasel? Can you agree with my description of Obama's accomplishments? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #62 October 30, 2020 Trump yesterday: "Voters are judging me on a lot of things, and one of the things we’ve done a really good job on is Covid." US is #1 in total cases out of 195 countries US is #1 in total deaths out of 195 countries US is #12 in cases per capita (top 6%) US is #10 in deaths per capita (top 5%) Again - gaslighting. Repeat the lie often enough and people start believing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 896 #63 October 31, 2020 20 hours ago, billvon said: Trump yesterday: ... Again - gaslighting. Repeat the lie often enough and people start believing it. With the proper mix of fear and division in the messaging of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #64 October 31, 2020 19 hours ago, jakee said: Can you agree with my description of Obama's accomplishments? I can agree that it concisely reflects your perception of the press release's fragmented text by structuring it into one complete sentence that's not fluently expressed in the press release. We could dig into further, but I'm afraid we'd just be rehashing the same arguments that do nothing to reconcile the ambiguity of the text more that what we already have. If you can simply agree with Webs that there's at least some wiggle room there, then I'm good with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #65 October 31, 2020 20 hours ago, JoeWeber said: By choosing ending the author was making a conscious choice, in my view, designed to offer argumentative wiggle room after the fact. But you at least agree there IS wiggle room. Whether or not it's just a case of Hanlon's razor is another issue, as is with the veracity of claims found in the actual OSTP report. 20 hours ago, JoeWeber said: By choosing ending the author was making a conscious choice Ok, let's try this. Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic." You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic. What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,265 #66 October 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Coreece said: But you at least agree there IS wiggle room. Whether or not it's just a case of Hanlon's razor is another issue, as is with the veracity of claims found in the actual OSTP report. Ok, let's try this. Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic." You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic. What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release? Aren't you in advertising? Do you really believe the report was written first and then the department of Trump Honesty worked through the night on the best, most truthful and conforming title? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,362 #67 October 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Coreece said: text deleted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 896 #68 October 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: Aren't you in advertising? Do you really believe the report was written first and then the department of Trump Honesty worked through the night on the best, most truthful and conforming title? You know the Bermuda Triangle is dead ahead. Then you hoist topsails.The crew must act. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #69 October 31, 2020 What no more pictures of weasels? Not sure what you people have against weasels anyway. I once read that a weasel climbed into the anus of the Algonquian/Canadian wendigo and ate his heart from within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,265 #70 October 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: You know the Bermuda Triangle is dead ahead. Then you hoist topsails.The crew must act. Yup. Reminds me of the Shirt from our 2017 Boogie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,089 #71 October 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, Coreece said: Ok, let's try this. Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic." You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic. What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release? Almost any other word. But when you consider that we lead the world in both infections and deaths, and we’re #3 in population, and significantly lower than that in density, I’m not sure I’d put that up high. Maybe “closed inputs to country in response to Covid” (thereby also appealing to the Stephen Miller fans). But in considering the actual effectiveness (even given this was going to be a bad country for it), that might shouldn’t have been addressed at all. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,889 #72 October 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, ryoder said: Looks more like a macaw than a Norwegian Blue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #73 October 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, wmw999 said: 52 minutes ago, Coreece said: Ok, let's try this. Suppose you were charged with the task of having to edit the words "ending the covid-19 pandemic." You've read the 65 page OSTP and what they're doing with regard to ending the covid-19 pandemic. What words would you choose to highlight that topic in the press release? Almost any other word. But when you consider that we lead the world in both infections and deaths, and we’re #3 in population, and significantly lower than that in density, I’m not sure I’d put that up high. Maybe “closed inputs to country in response to Covid” I understand what you are saying, but that's still only one of several items discussed in the report. They're not going to list all of them in the press release. If you were to summarize what the report says with regard to what they did, what they're doing and what they're going to do to end it, wouldn't it all fit nicely under the category of "ending the covid-19 pandemic?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,089 #74 October 31, 2020 29 minutes ago, Coreece said: I understand what you are saying, but that's still only one of several items discussed in the report. They're not going to list all of them in the press release. If you were to summarize what the report says with regard to what they did, what they're doing and what they're going to do to end it, wouldn't it all fit nicely under the category of "ending the covid-19 pandemic?" It would fit under “all-out effort to end the Covid pandemic.” It’s less likely to be misinterpreted, either willfully or accidentally. And avoiding being misinterpreted matters. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 419 #75 October 31, 2020 48 minutes ago, Coreece said: wouldn't it all fit nicely under the category of "ending the covid-19 pandemic?" fighting the covid-19 pandemic. A one-word change could have avoided all this, yes "fighting" is a strong word since he's practically given up on it, but it's still hell of a lot better than "ending". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites