1 1
billvon

Gaslighting as a strategy

Recommended Posts

Trump seems to have ratcheted up the gaslighting lately.  I have to wonder if it's even a conscious decision on the part of Trump, or the Trump team, to try it.  I suspect it's not - but there's always the chance that 1) some rocket scientist on the campaign thinks it's a good idea or 2) someone intelligent is just having fun and seeing what absurd things they can get Trump to say.

The first was that COVID-19 is over; it's going away, it's dying out etc etc.  Trump even got the White House Science Office (bit of an oxymoron there) to say that Trump was responsible for "ending the COVID-19 pandemic" when of course the opposite is true.  I guess maybe you could hope that FOX takes that bait and stops reporting on COVID, and that people don't read anything else?  But it's hard to imagine anyone with a brain can ignore the actual infections and deaths taking place all around them.

Then of course there's the whole "Hunter Biden/China" thing that they're trying to push.  "Biden's son got millions from China so Biden is corrupt!"  And Trump got hundreds of millions from China directly for himself, but that's different.

And it's getting worse.  Today he said that people in California have to use nonremovable masks: "In California, you have a special mask. You cannot under any circumstances take it off. You have to eat through the mask.  It's a very complex mechanism, and they don't realize those germs, they go through it like nothing. They look at you with that contraption and they say that's an easy one, I'm going right through with the food.  Now, how about California, though, where you're supposed to eat with the mask, can't take it off.  You see people and boy, you know, when you have spaghetti and meat sauce, that mask is not looking — you walk out, it looks like you got into a fight."  Is there someone in the White House that thinks saying things like that is a sane strategy?  Does Trump think it's a sane strategy?  Has he given up, and just saying the first thing that pops into his mind?  Or (scariest of all) does he actually think that?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, billvon said:

Trump seems to have ratcheted up the gaslighting lately.  I have to wonder if it's even a conscious decision on the part of Trump, or the Trump team, to try it.  I suspect it's not - but there's always the chance that 1) some rocket scientist on the campaign thinks it's a good idea or 2) someone intelligent is just having fun and seeing what absurd things they can get Trump to say.

The first was that COVID-19 is over; it's going away, it's dying out etc etc.  Trump even got the White House Science Office (bit of an oxymoron there) to say that Trump was responsible for "ending the COVID-19 pandemic" when of course the opposite is true.  I guess maybe you could hope that FOX takes that bait and stops reporting on COVID, and that people don't read anything else?  But it's hard to imagine anyone with a brain can ignore the actual infections and deaths taking place all around them.

Then of course there's the whole "Hunter Biden/China" thing that they're trying to push.  "Biden's son got millions from China so Biden is corrupt!"  And Trump got hundreds of millions from China directly for himself, but that's different.

And it's getting worse.  Today he said that people in California have to use nonremovable masks: "In California, you have a special mask. You cannot under any circumstances take it off. You have to eat through the mask.  It's a very complex mechanism, and they don't realize those germs, they go through it like nothing. They look at you with that contraption and they say that's an easy one, I'm going right through with the food.  Now, how about California, though, where you're supposed to eat with the mask, can't take it off.  You see people and boy, you know, when you have spaghetti and meat sauce, that mask is not looking — you walk out, it looks like you got into a fight."  Is there someone in the White House that thinks saying things like that is a sane strategy?  Does Trump think it's a sane strategy?  Has he given up, and just saying the first thing that pops into his mind?  Or (scariest of all) does he actually think that?

 

Hi Bill,

As teenager, there was a guy who lived across the street.  He would tell a lie and after a while, in his mind, it was the truth.  And, you could not convince him otherwise.

IMO not that much different than Trump.

I mean, when you have lied all of your entire life, what is a few more during these desperate times?

Drowning people grabbing at straws.

Jerry Baumchen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, billvon said:


The first was that COVID-19 is over; it's going away, it's dying out etc etc.  

 

Oddly, I cannot find any reporting on this at all on foxnews.com.   Coverage of the freezing people debacle at the Omaha rally is also missing -- did it get stolen in the mail, or did the dog eat it?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

"...As teenager, there was a guy who lived across the street.  He would tell a lie and after a while, in his mind, it was the truth.  And, you could not convince him otherwise..."

My mother was like that.  She would believe the most ridiculous things after she had herself set it in motion.  I think this phenomenon is more common than we think and we are seeing that play out in front of our eyes in varying degrees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,...

I mean, when you have lied all of your entire life, what is a few more during these desperate times?

Drowning people grabbing at straws.

Jerry Baumchen

This morning Fauci was being reported as saying that even with a vaccine available in the spring of 2021. Life won't return to normal till late 2022. My immediate thought was because he was not speaking from the WH it was just the truth covered up again by trump.

There are consequences(see below) for lying. trump's base would believe with "US first" who cares what the world thinks. Till you need votes at the UN. Till you need help from NATO or other allies.

spacer.pngYesterday Fauci remarked that he hadn't talked to trump for over two weeks.

I previously quoted a psychological study on gaslighting and lying. The essence of which is the concept that a lie repeated enough becomes a fact for many people. Which comes back to the natural effectiveness of propaganda.

Its how "centrists" come to believe the garbage that comes out of the mouth of trump. Its why Stephen Miller still has a job. Its why trump is still campaigning and telling his base that the corner on the virus has been turned. When new covid records are established every day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

 

There are consequences(see below) for lying. trump's base would believe with "US first" who cares what the world thinks. Till you need votes at the UN. Till you need help from NATO or other allies.

spacer.png

“O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”

Robert Burns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NewGuy2005 said:

My mother was like that.  She would believe the most ridiculous things after she had herself set it in motion.  I think this phenomenon is more common than we think and we are seeing that play out in front of our eyes in varying degrees.

Ain't the only one. The great spreader of lies is selling out the integrity of the state. In other countries you go directly to jail for such offenses.

‘Tsunamis of Misinformation’ Overwhelm Local Election Officials

"From Philadelphia to Sonoma County, Calif., election officials said they were working marathon hours to fight a flood of falsehoods.

The morning after last month’s presidential debate, the phones inside the Philadelphia election offices that Al Schmidt helps oversee rang off the hook.

One caller asked whether President Trump’s comments hinting at rampant voter fraud in Philadelphia were true. Another yelled about the inaccurate rumor that poll watchers were being barred from polling places. Still another demanded to know what the city was trying to hide."

Just trump and FOX at work destroying the trust of government. Damages that will take decades to repair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, billvon said:

Trump even got the White House Science Office (bit of an oxymoron there) to say that Trump was responsible for "ending the COVID-19 pandemic"

John brought this up in another thread.  I looked at the OSTP report and didn't see where it said "ending the COVID-19 pandemic," nor anything suggesting that it has ended. 

However, it did talk about the "tools to tackle today’s challenges, such as the COVID-19 pandemic" and that it represents "a generational challenge that can only be addressed through a whole-of-society approach"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Coreece said:

John brought this up in another thread.  I looked at the OSTP report and didn't see where it said "ending the COVID-19 pandemic," nor anything suggesting that it has ended. 

However, it did talk about the "tools to tackle today’s challenges, such as the COVID-19 pandemic" and that it represents "a generational challenge that can only be addressed through a whole-of-society approach"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf

I don't know what searches you tried because it was widely reported.

Subsequently the WH reported that it was a mistake to have stated that. They may have amended that report to remove that statement. But obviously somebody included and/or approved it in the original report.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:
15 minutes ago, Coreece said:

John brought this up in another thread.  I looked at the OSTP report and didn't see where it said "ending the COVID-19 pandemic," nor anything suggesting that it has ended. 

However, it did talk about the "tools to tackle today’s challenges, such as the COVID-19 pandemic" and that it represents "a generational challenge that can only be addressed through a whole-of-society approach"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf

I don't know what searches you tried because it was widely reported.

Subsequently the WH reported that it was a mistake to have stated that. They may have amended that report to remove that statement. But obviously somebody included and/or approved it in the original report.

What document said "ending the covid-19 pandemic," and where did it suggest that it has ended?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Coreece said:

What document said "ending the covid-19 pandemic," and where did it suggest that it has ended?

White House science office takes credit for 'ending' pandemic as infections mount

The White House’s science policy office on Tuesday ranked “ending the Covid-19 pandemic” atop the list of President Donald Trump’s top first-term accomplishments, even as the country registers record amounts of infections and hospitals fill up again.

The list, included in a press release from the Office of Science and Technology Policy credits the administration for taking “decisive actions to engage scientists and health professionals in academia, industry, and government to understand, treat, and defeat the disease.”

Everyone should read that press release to understand the drivel coming from the WH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
12 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:
31 minutes ago, Coreece said:

What document said "ending the covid-19 pandemic," and where did it suggest that it has ended?

White House science office takes credit for 'ending' pandemic as infections mount

The White House’s science policy office on Tuesday ranked “ending the Covid-19 pandemic” atop the list of President Donald Trump’s top first-term accomplishments, even as the country registers record amounts of infections and hospitals fill up again.

The list, included in a press release from the Office of Science and Technology Policy credits the administration for taking “decisive actions to engage scientists and health professionals in academia, industry, and government to understand, treat, and defeat the disease.”

Where specifically does it say "ending the covid-19 pandemic" and suggest that it has ended?

You say that it was in there, but now it has been removed.  Where is the original?

Even the first link in your google search in post #10 specifically says that "The 62-page document attached to the email did not say the administration “ended” the pandemic."

 

12 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Everyone should read that press release to understand the drivel coming from the WH.

What specifically do take exception with?

Edited by Coreece

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Where specifically does it say "ending the covid-19 pandemic" and suggest that it has ended?

You say that it was in there, but now it has been removed.  Where is the original?

Even the first link in that google search in post #10 specifically says that "The 62-page document attached to the email did not say the administration “ended” the pandemic."

  1. The original was likely removed or changed, as WH communications director has admitted it was "poorly worded": https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/10/28/white-house-claim-that-trump-ended-the-pandemic-was-poorly-worded-spokesperson-says/ - they're not denying it
  2. If I had was in a football team in the premier league and we were down 16 points halfway through the season, I wouldn't say we were "winning" the league, especially when the past several matches featured own goals.

The thing about "ending" vs. "ended" - I've been seeing this from Trump supporters since yesterday, did you get your script late from your handler?

I mean, couldn't you choose a more original hill to die on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Coreece said:

John brought this up in another thread.  I looked at the OSTP report and didn't see where it said "ending the COVID-19 pandemic," nor anything suggesting that it has ended. 

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000

Front page, bold type, all caps.  Did you look it up on FOX News perhaps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, olofscience said:

image.png.b4ef5c86401c9aa95b1d239cdf8a323c.png
 

The entire wording of that press release is something that you could expect from the press official of Saddam Hussein. Self serving b.s specifically crafted to appeal to trump personally.. No wonder engineers,doctors, scientists are laughing stock for the WH-Stephen Miller gaslighing machine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, olofscience said:
1 hour ago, Coreece said:

Where specifically does it say "ending the covid-19 pandemic" and suggest that it has ended?

You say that it was in there, but now it has been removed.  Where is the original?

Even the first link in that google search in post #10 specifically says that "The 62-page document attached to the email did not say the administration “ended” the pandemic."

  1. The original was likely removed or changed, as WH communications director has admitted it was "poorly worded": https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/10/28/white-house-claim-that-trump-ended-the-pandemic-was-poorly-worded-spokesperson-says/ - they're not denying it

You're confused. The original OSTP report was not modified.  What she was referring to as "poorly worded" was the press release, which is what you actually posted in your previous reply.  It reads:

"ENDING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC: From the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Administration has taken decisive actions to engage scientists and health professionals in academia, industry, and government to understand, treat, and defeat the disease."

I agree it could've been worded better, but you still have to be pretty intellectually dishonest to say that that they're claiming it has ended when they didn't, especially when the original OSTP report that it's referencing specifically talks about how it's a "generational problem" and can "only be addressed through a whole-of-society approach."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, billvon said:
2 hours ago, Coreece said:

John brought this up in another thread.  I looked at the OSTP report and didn't see where it said "ending the COVID-19 pandemic," nor anything suggesting that it has ended. 

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000

Front page, bold type, all caps. 

You said that "Trump even got the  White House Science Office  [sic] (bit of an oxymoron there) to say that Trump was responsible for "ending the COVID-19 pandemic."

What you posted is the press release, not the actual report from the OSTP - and neither say that it has ended like you suggested it did.  The only way to come to that conclusion is if you're being intellectually dishonest or you just didn't read beyond your own confirmation bias and are being dragged by the nose by misleading headlines that impose on the text.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Coreece said:

You said that "Trump even got the  White House Science Office  [sic] (bit of an oxymoron there) to say that Trump was responsible for "ending the COVID-19 pandemic."

What you posted is the press release, not the actual report from the OSTP - and neither say that it has ended like you suggested it did.  The only way to come to that conclusion is if you're being intellectually dishonest or you just didn't read beyond your own confirmation bias and are being dragged by the nose by misleading headlines that impose on the text.

Some world-class hairsplitting here. Need any supplies? Magnifying glasses? Razor blades?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Coreece said:

You said that "Trump even got the  White House Science Office  [sic] (bit of an oxymoron there) to say that Trump was responsible for "ending the COVID-19 pandemic."

What you posted is the press release, not the actual report from the OSTP - and neither say that it has ended like you suggested it did.  The only way to come to that conclusion is if you're being intellectually dishonest or you just didn't read beyond your own confirmation bias and are being dragged by the nose by misleading headlines that impose on the text.

I said Trump took credit for ending the COVID-19 pandemic.  And I can prove it because the OSTP listed his accomplishments in a press release - and one was "ENDING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC."  Front page, bold type, all caps.  I even posted a link for you.

I eagerly await your redefinition of the word "ending" to explain why "ending" doesn't mean "ending."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

1 1