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bigbearfng

"the cult dynamics of wokeness"

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I've been watching the show on the NXIVM cult and was browsing on more info on cults and came across this. 

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/cult-dynamics-wokeness/

I found it interesting to read the comparisons. Thoughts? And to any scientologists sorry folks but scientology meets the criteria of a cult. Not all cults demand you end up drinking the Jim Jones brand of cool aid but it seems they all have some type of cool aid even though watered down from the Jones brand.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, bigbearfng said:

I found it interesting to read the comparisons. Thoughts? 

It's a load of tosh. He just spends a bunch of time talking about cults, a bunch of time talking about his interpretation of 'woke' culture and hopes that you will start thinking about woke culture as a cult simply through the process of association, not because he has actually demonstrated any similarities.

Take the bit where they talk about the sacrifices required by cults - giving money, cutting relationship and family ties, making pledges and allowing a cult leader to have sex with you or your partner/female relations. Then they mention anti-racist 'woke' culture requiring you to try and be anti-racist. WTF? Not only does that bear absolutely no relation to the extra demands made by cult leaders who have different overt mission statements, it also means that literally any ideology qualifies as a cult. Being a Republican means believing in right of centre social and fiscal policies? It's a cult! Being in the NRA requires believing in 2nd Amendment rights? It's a cult! Being pro-life requires you to be anti-abortion? It's a cult!

Ludicrous.

Edited by jakee

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(edited)

It sounds similar to the trump cult. Sex, payment for educational scams, self enrichment, hero worship. Just a more advanced time line because its leader is soon to face sentencing.

Sex Cult Leader, Facing Life Sentence, Regrets Nothing

Instead of pussy grabbing this cult leader:  "Mr. Raniere also created a secret women-only group within the company in 2015. Those women, who were called “slaves,” were branded with his initials near their pelvises and assigned to have sex with him. They adhered to strict diets, restricted to as low as 500 calories a day. They were required to hand over collateral, including photos of their genitals that they feared would be released if they disobeyed orders."

Edited by Phil1111

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2 hours ago, bigbearfng said:

I found it interesting to read the comparisons. Thoughts?

He never defines what "wokeness" is.  Is it a group of a few hundred people that meets with a leader and a bunch of secrets and everything?  Then it's a cult.  (Although it's one I've never heard of.)

Is it just "don't be an asshole" and "accept people for who they are?"  Then it's not a cult at all; indeed, it's just caring about other people.

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Just now, billvon said:

He never defines what "wokeness" is.  Is it a cult of a few hundred people that meets with a leader and a bunch of secrets and everything?  Then it's a cult.  (Although it's one I've never heard of.)

Is it just "don't be an asshole" and "accept people for who they are?"  Then it's not a cult at all; indeed, it's just caring about other people.

It's the new catch-all term for concepts, ideas & attitudes that the Alt-Right doesn't like.

Kinda like "Antifa."

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We can leave out swerving lanes to mention Trump....

What makes me go WTH is when people are "talked into" kneeling down and apologizing for being white. I've seen it happen on videos and would really like to know the circumstances. Who what when where why? Is Robin Diangelo's book being used as a "script" by people out there?  Comes off as "cultish" to me.

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50 minutes ago, bigbearfng said:

We can leave out swerving lanes to mention Trump....

What makes me go WTH is when people are "talked into" kneeling down and apologizing for being white. I've seen it happen on videos and would really like to know the circumstances. Who what when where why? Is Robin Diangelo's book being used as a "script" by people out there?  Comes off as "cultish" to me.

I don't know what dark corners of the alt right internet you hang out in to see videos like that. Here in the real world I have never heard of such a thing. My belief is that you are the one being recruited by a cult.

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I hope you're just trolling. Because if you truly believe what you wrote you're a prime example of the rabid people, and there are rabid people on both sides of the isle.

Those videos have been in the news, not in a "dark corner of the alt right internet.

Folk with genuine thoughts on the subject I would like to hear from. I guess I'm disappointed that everything in here seems to twist into polarized political crap.

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2 hours ago, bigbearfng said:

We can leave out swerving lanes to mention Trump....

What makes me go WTH is when people are "talked into" kneeling down and apologizing for being white. I've seen it happen on videos  . . . .

That may be your problem right there.  Internet videos are a poor source for credible information IMO.  I've never seen that, although I am sure if you get people riled up enough they'll say almost anything.

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5 hours ago, bigbearfng said:

What makes me go WTH is when people are "talked into" kneeling down and apologizing for being white. 

That makes me go WTH are you talking about? Examples, please.

Quote

I've seen it happen on videos and would really like to know the circumstances. Who what when where why? Is Robin Diangelo's book being used as a "script" by people out there?  Comes off as "cultish" to me.

You have no idea of the circumstances, no idea who was doing it, why they were doing it etc... but you still think it's a cult thing to with the a book written by a lady who I 100% guarantee you had never heard of before reading the article linked in the OP?

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4 hours ago, bigbearfng said:

I hope you're just trolling. Because if you truly believe what you wrote you're a prime example of the rabid people, and there are rabid people on both sides of the isle.

Really? You think that you calling woke culture a cult is neutral, thoughtful social analyis, but him saying you are being indoctrinated into cult thinking is rabid trolling?

Sounds to me like you're pushing an extremely polarised viewpoint.

Edited by jakee

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Now I remember why I left SC before. There is no neutral exchange of ideas. I may think differently than other people, but I would like to know why we have opposing views. And that's meant in a trying to see/meet at common ground way.  

BTW Billvon, I do appreciate your response. I've never been much on taking things at face value and I will dig into videos posted more. Wither on the news or otherwise.

Just one question to ponder-who unfriends people that have opposing views? Would you not get on a jump with them because of it? Not have a beer with them at beer light?

Later, I'm out of here. Carry on with your vitriol.

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9 minutes ago, bigbearfng said:

Just one question to ponder-who unfriends people that have opposing views? Would you not get on a jump with them because of it? Not have a beer with them at beer light?

On FB (where I'm not nearly as active), I've unfriended a couple of people, none of them ones that I'd had any real non-FB friendship with. There are some very longtime friends I disagree wildly with, who I nevertheless respect and enjoy in person, even discussing politics.

Because we respect each other. They know we disagree; when I post in their political threads (rarely), it's not to counter opinions, it's to show a missing fact that I think is crucial, and I'll say why it's crucial. That's generally a thread-killer in those threads :halo:, but that's kind of the point. Because they know I don't do it to counter, I do it because I do in fact know.

The people I have unfriended (all 2 of them) show no human respect for differing views, or such vulgarity and stupidity and frequency of posting that I just couldn't take it. That was 4 years ago.

There are people I'd hesitate to drink a beer with, based on how they express their views -- they're so condescending or unfunnily sarcastic, or have become so one-sided and dogmatic that I can't imagine it being fun. And that's why I'd drink beer with someone, to have fun.

Wendy P.

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(edited)
4 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I haven't seen them, either. But then I hate news distributed via long-running youtube videos, just as I hate recipes provided via video.

Wendy P.

Absolutely.

I'm somewhat data limited, so I don't watch a whole lot of videos.
I prefer to read text articles. 

So the fact that I haven't seen one does NOT mean they don't exist.

But if he's going to claim they are out there 'in the news', then he should easily be able to link one...

Shouldn't he?

 

That's why I made my request.
I even said 'please'.

Edited by wolfriverjoe

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It might depend on what news you're watching. I'll admit I spend little time on any of the sources that the various media evaluators call "fiction in a news suit," whether liberal or conservative. Unless they're funny -- the Onion is always good

Wendy P.

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6 hours ago, bigbearfng said:

Now I remember why I left SC before. There is no neutral exchange of ideas. I may think differently than other people, but I would like to know why we have opposing views. And that's meant in a trying to see/meet at common ground way.  

Then why not respond to the people giving you genuine answers, not just the people you most disagree with? You are responsible for the discussion your are perpetuating.

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17 hours ago, bigbearfng said:

Those videos have been in the news, not in a "dark corner of the alt right internet.

Show me don't tell me. I have never heard of such a thing. And if they exist they are of some weird marginal thing that is being blown up either in your mind, or in an internet corner that you frequent. Go ahead, run away if you can't take the heat. Again, show me "people are "talked into" kneeling down and apologizing for being white. " And no, I am not trolling. I am challenging you to put up and back up your claim.

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I have now found something about what has provoked you to make this claim. It is a viral video that was a satire and contains a scene with a black man who claims to represent "BLM", but does not. It is not a movement, nor a cult. It's just something you saw on social media designed to provoke you. And it worked.

https://ca.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23B359

You may not be being recruited by a cult. But you are being influenced by white nationalists.

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9 hours ago, bigbearfng said:

Just one question to ponder-who unfriends people that have opposing views? 

I never have; it's interesting to see other people's viewpoints, whether because they saw something I didn't or because at least I understand better why I disagree with them.  Also unfriending people can result in you seeing only an echo chamber where your own opinions are echoed endlessly by people who agree with you.

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2 hours ago, billvon said:

I never have; it's interesting to see other people's viewpoints, whether because they saw something I didn't or because at least I understand better why I disagree with them.  Also unfriending people can result in you seeing only an echo chamber where your own opinions are echoed endlessly by people who agree with you.

I have unfriended people when they started calling black people niggers or if they claim close friendships with people who do. I am fine being in a non-white power echo chamber.

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