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Presidental Debate

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4 hours ago, wmw999 said:

What is the path forward for someone earning $11/hour? That's $22000/year, which is tight but possible to support one person, but virtually impossible to support a family -- either a spouse stays home, or they can't afford childcare. If there isn't a path forward, then you can understand people not wanting the job.

We as a society have come to expect too much for too little. And then we wonder why the "minions" object and quit.

Wendy P.

Hey, but a single person in that job would still pay more income tax than Trump.

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On 10/1/2020 at 2:06 AM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Just FYI:  'Presidential debate: How the world's media reacted'

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54354405

Jerry Baumchen

 

 

Here's the best line to sum up the whole article, from an Italian news source:

Quote

"The US embarrassed itself before the world for 100 minutes," it wrote.

Yep.

 

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24 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

The evening national news says that if they change the debate rules, Trump might not agree.  I would be OK if he simply did not show up.

I expect that Biden would do much better debating an empty chair (podium) than Clint Eastwood did in 2012.

 

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26 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

The evening national news says that if they change the debate rules, Trump might not agree.  I would be OK if he simply did not show up.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  My money says he does not have the guts to not show up.  All bluff; like everything about him.

Everyone knows trump can't resist national TV,  a chance to shoot his yapper off AND insult Biden at the same time. He'd show.

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I don't normally watch TV, but the day after the debate I was rewiring my audio/video system and turned on the TV tuner briefly, and discovered one to the local sub-channels is carrying Deutsche Welle (the German counterpart to BBC News). The announcer was talking about the debate:

"And it quickly descended into a word I can't use. But the word starts with 'cluster' and rhymes with 'luck'."

LOL!

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8 hours ago, wmw999 said:

What is the path forward for someone earning $11/hour? That's $22000/year, which is tight but possible to support one person, but virtually impossible to support a family -- either a spouse stays home, or they can't afford childcare. If there isn't a path forward, then you can understand people not wanting the job.

We as a society have come to expect too much for too little. And then we wonder why the "minions" object and quit.

IMO while the world is, on average, becoming socially more progressive all the time, it has also been moving drastically towards the fiscal right for decades while people are simultaneously being brainwashed that it's too unfair to rich people and too good to the poor. IMO social programs in temrs of real dollars/pounds have never been weaker since the social safety net was first instituted in the early 20th century, while the rewards for success have never been higher compared to the average Joe, and the real tax burden on both wealthy individuals and corporations has never been lower.

 

Anyone who thinks that poor people are the problem is fucking insane, IMO.

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An interesting point I found on FB.

I don't know a whole lot about stuttering, but I do know that stress makes it worse.

 

Quote
I did not write this but it explains a lot about last night.
Joe Biden is a stutterer. Like many others, he has overcome the disability by understanding it and exercising extraordinary perseverance and discipline. If you know and love a stutterer and you watched the presidential debate last night, within minutes it became obvious what was going on. Abusive tone of voice, rapid fire interruptions, zigzagging change of topic, personal insult and humiliation, and family pain are all tripwires that scramble a stutterer's ability to speak.
There was nothing unplanned or spontaneous in the President's strategy. They prepped Trump to attack Joe's disability hoping that by triggering his stuttering they might deceive an audience unfamiliar with the disability into thinking that Joe was stupid, weak, uncertain, confused, or lost to dementia. [We should all be aware of] the subtle but intense struggle against the disability that Joe was winning at the same time he was struggling to advance his positions on the issues in the midst of a rhetorical shit storm. W

Again, I don't know what Trump's prep and plan were, but this is about his speed.

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1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

An interesting point I found on FB.

I don't know a whole lot about stuttering, but I do know that stress makes it worse.

 

Again, I don't know what Trump's prep and plan were, but this is about his speed.

Hi Joe,

A good friend sent me this about the debate:  'Biden survived and was still swinging at the end - that is a win.  Trump failed to break Biden, so Biden is not a weak senile old man. Failure to break Biden increased Trump's raving. I think Biden showed as much style as possible under the circumstances.'

Jerry Baumchen

 

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If Trump is too disorganized to plan a fake COVID attack when he has plenty of time to react, he for sure isn't organized enough to deliberately use triggers to try to get Biden to break. That was just how Trump is, thinking bullying is power.

Wendy P.

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

If Trump is too disorganized to plan a fake COVID attack when he has plenty of time to react, he for sure isn't organized enough to deliberately use triggers to try to get Biden to break. That was just how Trump is, thinking bullying is power.

Wendy P.

Maybe, maybe not.

The truly disgusting part about this is how hard it is to tell if Trump was deliberately trying to push Biden hard enough to bring his stutter out, or if it was just "Trump being Trump."

I don't believe he's organized enough, nor smart enough to deliberately do this.

But he has people who are. 
And if one of them said something like:

"If you push him hard enough, if you antagonize him enough, it will bring his stutter out. Once he starts stuttering, you can push the 'senile old man' button."

The fact that he hammered on Biden's dead son is a good example. Again, is it a deliberate attempt to get Biden rattled enough to lose control, or is it simply Trump being a despicable pile of garbage?

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2 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Again, is it a deliberate attempt to get Biden rattled enough to lose control, or is it simply Trump being a despicable pile of garbage?

The space between those is very, very, small.

Wendy P.

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3 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Again, is it a deliberate attempt to get Biden rattled enough to lose control, or is it simply Trump being a despicable pile of garbage?

Hi Joe,

I think the first was the game plan.  The second was just Trump being Trump.

Really glad to see that Joe did not crack.  It would have been a disaster for his campaign.

Jerry Baumchen

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31 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

I think the first was the game plan.  The second was just Trump being Trump.

Really glad to see that Joe did not crack.  It would have been a disaster for his campaign.

Jerry Baumchen

Worse, Jerry. It would have been a disaster for the world.

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I'm sure we'll hear all about how this is fake news, and that none of those people should be voting anyway. There's a thoroughly depressing article in this week's NY Time Magazine about voter suppression.

It's kind of like welfare fraud. It's OK to keep 10,000 people off welfare to make sure that a fraud doesn't collect, and it's better to keep 10,000 people from voting to prevent a single bad vote.

Of course, there's a lot more welfare fraud than voter fraud.

Wendy P.

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2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I'm sure we'll hear all about how this is fake news, and that none of those people should be voting anyway.

"The polls are wrong!  Remember last time when you were SURE Clinton was going to win?"
"Those are all from liberal sites."
"People who vote, vote for Trump."
"Low information voters are just pumping up the Biden nunbers."
"They are all felons from Florida."

Any others?

 

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Besides working my local polls in person (well, I've volunteered), what can I personally do? I don't live in or particularly close to a battleground state, or even a state with any sort of record for voter suppression. Just being pissed isn't really very effective.

Wendy P.

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Besides working my local polls in person (well, I've volunteered), what can I personally do? I don't live in or particularly close to a battleground state, or even a state with any sort of record for voter suppression. Just being pissed isn't really very effective.

Wendy P.

 

The PSA crew has gone to lengths to answer that exact question.

https://votesaveamerica.com/adopt-a-state/

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Besides working my local polls in person (well, I've volunteered), what can I personally do? I don't live in or particularly close to a battleground state, or even a state with any sort of record for voter suppression. Just being pissed isn't really very effective.

Wendy P.

The local volunteers are making me even more pissed off than normal.

I’m getting called / texted 6 or 7 times a day to ask if I’m be voting for X. Despite being on the FCC no spam call database. It’s SUPER obnoxious.

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