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Bigfalls

Presidental Debate

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2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

And it looks like the s*** has hit the fan at NBC.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/trump-town-hall-fury-at-nbc-429639

Jerry Baumchen

It was an interesting broadcast. The host pushed him (some), and constantly threw in facts that he had to address. But gave him time to answer the questions. He was fairly successful in providing, "the rest of the story," to full in the information that most news stories fail to report.

They hit on his tax returns, COVID, Barret and how she will vote, healthcare, stimulus funds, corporate taxes, and few other current topics. It's worth watching. Whether you believe it is up to you.

I plan to watch a reply of the Biden broadcast tomorrow. I expect he'll have to answer about his son and the recent disclosures, fracking, and other items. 

Crazy times for sure. 

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5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Bill,

Can you offer a few examples each of why you dislike Obama and Clinton?

Well, let's start with these.

Jakee did a good job of listing a couple serious items for Hillary: Benghazi, and the emails. I'd add her fraudulent non-profit to that list.

For Obama, here are three items: He can't just shut up and go away like most others have done. He had his eight years and accomplished little.

He had a golden opportunity to make significant improvements in race relations. Instead he and Eric Holder totally goofed on Ferguson. https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/obamas-ferguson-sellout-9058.html

He is a great speaker. His many years as a community organizer definitely show. But giving a great speech is just the first step. It must be followed up with action to back the words. In most cases that never occurred.

 

In fairness, I could list things that I don't like about Trump. I could also list huge successes in spite of the constant political roadblocks that have been thrown in his path. The recent Middle East peace accord is epic. It's not perfect but it's a start. 

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51 minutes ago, billeisele said:

For Obama, here are three items: He can't just shut up and go away like most others have done. He had his eight years and accomplished little.

Other than getting healthcare for tens of millions of Americans, pulling the US out of a recession, killing Bin Laden, stopping Ebola in its tracks and reducing government spending by over 50%.  Other than that, he did very little.

And I can't help but notice that all he does now is tweet and occasionally give an interview or two.  You could ignore them, but you seem to hang on his every word.  There's a reason for that; people have a natural attraction to sanity in a time of chaos.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, billeisele said:

They hit on his tax returns, COVID, Barret and how she will vote, healthcare, stimulus funds, corporate taxes, and few other current topics. It's worth watching. Whether you believe it is up to you.

Believe what? He was as full of shit as always. He lied about his taxes-who he owed money to etc., he lied about Covid and masks etc., and he stupidly admitted that he expects Barrett to make the "right decision" on Roe. Bill, like your answers to my questions above you just say words. You really need to put some meat on the bone.

Edited by JoeWeber

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1 hour ago, billeisele said:

Well, let's start with these.

Jakee did a good job of listing a couple serious items for Hillary: Benghazi, and the emails. I'd add her fraudulent non-profit to that list.

 

So how do you feel about trump's fraudulent 'university' and fraudulent foundation?  Not just my opinion, but found to be fraudulent by courts, with fines totaling $27MILLION levied.

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23 minutes ago, billvon said:

Other than getting healthcare for tens of millions of Americans, pulling the US out of a recession, killing Bin Laden, stopping Ebola in its tracks and reducing government spending by over 50%.  Other than that, he did very little.

And I can't help but notice that all he does now is tweet and occasionally give an interview or two.  You could ignore them, but you seem to hang on his every word.  There's a reason for that; people have a natural attraction to sanity in a time of chaos.

Now is the time for Pelosi to accept Trumps offer on the stimulus. Trump claimed all of the Senate R's would fall into line. McConnell does not have the support. He will also not derail the Coney-Barrett fast track. It won't pass and both Trump and McConnell will come off as impotent losers. 

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9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Believe what? He was as full of shit as always. He lied about his taxes-who he owed money to etc., he lied about Covid and masks etc., and he stupidly admitted that he expects Barrett to make the "right decision" on Roe. Bill, like your answers to my questions above you just say words. You really need to put some meat on the bone.

It's almost silly to try and have a serious conversation here. You asked and I answered. My response is how I see it. Your response and the response of others is the same.

If it's as you've stated please provide the sources to back up your claim that he lied about taxes or who he owes money to, or proof that anyone knows how Barrett will respond on Roe.

 

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2 hours ago, olofscience said:

Well, Trump didn't give the country that choice back in Feb/March when he knew covid-19 was more serious than the flu, now when it's a crazy conspiracy theory it's OK to leave it to the people to decide?

Yep, 9 months ago he made a decision that some disagree with. We saw what happened as information came out a few weeks later. Panic buying and isolation.

Maybe a different decision would have been better who knows. It's always easy to see the past and say it should have been done differently. 

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9 hours ago, billvon said:

Other than getting healthcare for tens of millions of Americans, pulling the US out of a recession, killing Bin Laden, stopping Ebola in its tracks and reducing government spending by over 50%.  Other than that, he did very little.

And I can't help but notice that all he does now is tweet and occasionally give an interview or two.  You could ignore them, but you seem to hang on his every word.  There's a reason for that; people have a natural attraction to sanity in a time of chaos.

Interesting list of five items. But noted that you didn't comment on the missed opportunity on race relations.

Healthcare that's turned out to not be working for most. Oh, and you can't keep your doctor. To bad the mandate was illegal. I'm glad he tried, it just didn't work. A close personal friend is on the insurance end in the exchange business and he says they are making more money now than before. The people I've spoken to and what I've read elsewhere indicates high premiums and high deductibles. If you have a known condition that requires expensive care then it works, otherwise no. 

Recession - no comment

Bin Laden - good job. Ebola - don't remember the history but it was during his watch.

Spending, uhh NO. It's nuts how many hand maidens Michelle had compared to what the current admin is doing. In fairness, it's not really Obama's fault. The government has been bloated for years. I worked directly with hundreds of fed employees and it was head-shaking dealing with them. They would have 10 in a meeting and just me. A private business would have 2-3 people doing what 10 were doing. Procurement practices cause much of that problem and super slow decision making. At the end of my career I watched a customer (military base) spend 4X more for something than they could have bought from another source. One sad fact is the option they chose to solve the problem still didn't solve it. 

And no, I don't follow Obama, just hear it on the news and wonder why.

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9 hours ago, billvon said:

Other than getting healthcare for tens of millions of Americans, pulling the US out of a recession, killing Bin Laden, stopping Ebola in its tracks and reducing government spending by over 50%.  Other than that, he did very little.

And I can't help but notice that all he does now is tweet and occasionally give an interview or two.  You could ignore them, but you seem to hang on his every word.  There's a reason for that; people have a natural attraction to sanity in a time of chaos.

Interesting list of five items. But noted that you didn't comment on the missed opportunity on race relations.

Healthcare that's turned out to not be working for most. Oh, and you can't keep your doctor. To bad the mandate was illegal. I'm glad he tried, it just didn't work. A close personal friend is on the insurance end in the exchange business and he says they are making more money now than before. The people I've spoken to and what I've read elsewhere indicates high premiums and high deductibles. If you have a known condition that requires expensive care then it works, otherwise no. 

Recession - no comment

Bin Laden - good job. Ebola - don't remember the history but it was during his watch.

Spending, uhh NO. It's nuts how many hand maidens Michelle had compared to what the current admin is doing. In fairness, it's not really Obama's fault. The government has been bloated for years. I worked directly with hundreds of fed employees and it was head-shaking dealing with them. They would have 10 in a meeting and just me. A private business would have 2-3 people doing what 10 were doing. Procurement practices cause much of that problem and super slow decision making. At the end of my career I watched a customer (military base) spend 4X more for something than they could have bought from another source. One sad fact is the option they chose to solve the problem still didn't solve it. 

And no, I don't follow Obama, just hear it on the news and wonder why.

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9 hours ago, kallend said:

So how do you feel about trump's fraudulent 'university' and fraudulent foundation?  Not just my opinion, but found to be fraudulent by courts, with fines totaling $27MILLION levied.

I agree with you. It shouldn't have happened.

So how do you feel about Benghazi, the email server, the Clinton foundation, and the unfolding news on Hunter?

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9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Now is the time for Pelosi to accept Trumps offer on the stimulus. Trump claimed all of the Senate R's would fall into line. McConnell does not have the support. He will also not derail the Coney-Barrett fast track. It won't pass and both Trump and McConnell will come off as impotent losers. 

Yep, that would be interesting to see. He clearly said it would pass. If it doesn't he'll have to own it. But if it passes will you post a retraction and applaud?

What I think he was doing was calling out Pelosi. She doesn't want it to pass so has loaded it with non-virus things that she knows are unacceptable to Trump. The funding to bail out failed Democrat run states is an example.

She wants to be able to continue to say, "We're trying, Trump doesn't care about Americans, he doesn't care, the Republicans aren't negotiating fairly, etc." I think she should look in the mirror. 

Wouldn't it be nice to have actions that didn't have unrelated topics tied together? This is an ongoing problem in Washington, nothing new.

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I'll tell you how I feel.

Benghazi -- it was an attack; the story that there were helicopters standing by that Clinton said not to send is single-sourced (other than all the repeats). The general consensus as I understand it is that it was an attack; it was downplayed as an attack because in part of the election and in part because it was felt safer to wait until it was certain it was an attack before characterizing it as such. There have been a number of Republican-led congressional investigations, none of which have come up with anything chargeable. What decision would you have made in those emergent circumstances? And, as you said about Trump and his denial of COVID (which has now killed over 200,000, not 4, Americans):

32 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Maybe a different decision would have been better who knows. It's always easy to see the past and say it should have been done differently.

 

On to the emails. Clinton used a private server -- so have Ivanka and Jared, etc. Again, multiple Republican-led investigations have led to no charges, and no findings other than "could have been better." Ya know, everything in technology could be better. I have a cousin who works for the foreign service -- she said the internal servers at the time sucked so bad that they were used only for things that absolutely had to be in them.

Clinton Foundation? Well, it gets 3 stars (nearly 4) from Charity Navigator Charity Navigator financials look at Clinton Foundation

Yes, it could be 4 stars, and their expense-to-help ratio could be better (but at 75% of money going to benefactees, it's not bad, and in high-overhead areas like ones needing lots of travel that's pretty good). As a site that I use to look at charities, that works for me.

Hunter Biden: He reminds me of Billy Carter. He used his connections for his own benefit, and his father didn't try hard enough to stop him -- but as an adult, he probably couldn't have stopped him. Ya know, look at nearly any rich and/or connected family, and you see the same thing. As far as the current Laptop-gate thing, let's see how much reality there is first. The story of "I'm legally blind but it looked like Hunter to me" and "I gave it to Rudy Giuliani because I didn't know what else to do" combined with a single isolated email really doesn't pass much muster. If it's real, there are electronic footprints that can be checked, and would be. Do you really think that other news sources wouldn't be all over this if they could? It's kind of like being the first to disprove a controversial (or even non-controversial) scientific theory -- all of a sudden, if you have a SOLID METHODOLOGY (emphasis deliberate), you're a god and the center of attention, with everyone trying to replicate your work. It's the good kind of attention, and gets you scientific prizes. The equivalent in journalism gets you things like Pulitzers and increased readership (which is even better, because it means money).

There's my off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts. I gave it some time, I gave it some thought.

Wendy P.

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2 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Yep, that would be interesting to see. He clearly said it would pass. If it doesn't he'll have to own it. But if it passes will you post a retraction and applaud?

What I think he was doing was calling out Pelosi. She doesn't want it to pass so has loaded it with non-virus things that she knows are unacceptable to Trump. The funding to bail out failed Democrat run states is an example.

She wants to be able to continue to say, "We're trying, Trump doesn't care about Americans, he doesn't care, the Republicans aren't negotiating fairly, etc." I think she should look in the mirror. 

Wouldn't it be nice to have actions that didn't have unrelated topics tied together? This is an ongoing problem in Washington, nothing new.

You have trump's talking points down to a T.

Remember US President Donald Trump has said he is ending negotiations over a Covid-19 relief bill, and will only resume talks after the election.. On Oct. 7th

Middle East peace? The peace is supposed to be between the Palestinians and Israel. Not between Israel and a couple Arab countries that don't even border the conflict. You and trump seem to think a peace plan that doesn't involve one of the parties is worth the paper its printed on. It's entire rationale is to counter Iranian influence, nothing more.

Benghazi, e-mails, keep drinking the kool-aid. You probably even imagine trump negotiated a successful trade deal with China after winning the trade war.

trump counts on FOX and his enablers to keep his cult followers ignorant.

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49 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Yep, 9 months ago he made a decision that some disagree with. We saw what happened as information came out a few weeks later. Panic buying and isolation.

Maybe a different decision would have been better who knows. It's always easy to see the past and say it should have been done differently. 

You're avoiding answering my question.

So you're saying:

  1. Hiding facts about Covid-19 because people can't decide for themselves and will panic: OK
  2. Retweeting nutjob conspiracy theories because people can decide for themselves if it's true: OK

You're being very contradictory. Can people decide for themselves, or not?

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