Need Experienced Opinions on Used Skydiving Rig, Jump Suit, Camera Gear, Helmet etc from an Estate Sale.

[F104 Starfighter 2]

Need Experienced Opinions on Used Skydiving Rig, Jump Suit, Camera Gear, Helmet etc.

Thanks for your help in advance. I purchased this gear from a person who bought an Estate Sale in Alameda, CA. I don't know if the person is hospitalized or died.  I've written this in 3 separate ads and they are posted on Craigslist. The links with more photos are listed below. I will be writing more details when I get time.

Looking for your opinion/estimates on what this gear is worth used and what it cost new, if it is currently used or if it would be retired as Wall/Hangar/Bar art. What is the normal procedure for selling a used Container with Parachutes inside with no history? Can you tell me about the devices (Automatic Activation Device) if they can continue to be used? Their new cost and current value?

Ad 1. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/d/alameda-skydiving-parachuting-gear-many/7195616551.html
Parachute Rig x 2 units. 15 photos total. The outside of the containers appear to be in Good Clean Condition. The Red and Black Rig date is Nov 1993. The Red Black and Yellow Rig is Sept 1994. New Complete Rigs sell for about $6,000-8,000 https://www.chutingstar.com/skydive/skydiving-rigs/complete-rig-packages
Altimeter Chest Strap Mount. Good Clean Condition. The Altimeter cost about $180 and a Chest Pillow about $35. https://www.chutingstar.com/skydive/altimeters/analog-altimeters/alti-2-altimaster-ii-skydiving-altimeter
Log Book. Only 1 or 2 pages used. See photos.

Ad 2. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/d/alameda-skydiving-parachuting-gear-many/7195616551.html
Jumpsuit x 2 units. 13 photos. Both Jumpsuits are in Good Clean Condition. Tony Suit with Red Wings and a Bev Suit with Red Grips. Jump Suits cost about $350.

https://www.tonysuits.com/shop/skydiving-jumpsuits/

https://www.bevsuit.com/products.htm

Ad 3. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/d/alameda-skydiving-parachuting-gear-many/7195620916.html
Helmets x 3 units and Video Camera. 13 photos total.
The Gath Helmet is Size Small, in Good Condition. It has an photo aiming device with a light attached. The "Time Out" Device on the outside of the Gath is it currently being used? Thread on the "Time Out"Device: https://www.dropzone.com/gear/altimeters/time-out-r137/ Gath Helmets cost about $170 new. https://gathsports.com/product/gath-hat-neo/
The other 2 helmets, one is a size Small and I assume the other is Small also. The Foam liner on the 2 helmets in the same photo has aged and is crumbling inside so most people would not wear it. The Helmet shown with 2 Helmets on the right with the camera housing has a photo aiming device and is missing the chin straps. Full Face Helmets range in price from $250-500. https://www.chutingstar.com/skydive/helmets/full-face-helmets

Edited September 14, 2020 by F104 Starfighter
Edit

[sfzombie13 307]

i'd jump it, depending on the canopies condition.  the aad's are probably expired.  a few months ago, i paid $400 for a container made in aug '94 with a reserve but no main, was a j4 with a c-18.  you can sell the canopies for a few hundred each, maybe a little more depending on what they are, how old they are, and what condition they are in.  the suit is probably worth at least $150, but i am not an expert on pricing.  the helmets are in decent shape as are the cameras but it is all old, so probably not worth a lot.  most folks jump go-pros now.  you can unpack the main and reserve to look at what size they are and the condition they are in.  your best bet is to find a dz close to you and take it all in to have it looked at by a pro.  if you want to get rid of the red one, let me know. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

Oh my. That's some seriously old gear. Forget about what 'new ones cost'. 
Also, forget about C/L. Classifieds on here or some of the FB groups would be a much better place.

As far as the rigs go:

You need to find out when they were last repacked.
There should be a packing data card, it should be in a little pocket on the back of the label with the serial number on it (I think). That will tell you what reserve is in it and when it was last inspected & repacked. How many packs are on it (that matters) And who did it. 

You'd have to open up the main containers to see what main canopy is in it. 

Depending on the mains, there might be some value. But not a whole lot. 
There are a lot of riggers out there who won't pack or work on gear that old. 

However, you might find a newer jumper or a beginning camera flyer who would want one for a turn rig. Maybe. 

The altimeter might be worth a bit. Most of the kids these days go for digital, but some of the 'crusty old guys' prefer analog. The chest mount pillow is popular for wingsuiting. 

The Astra & Time Out are obsolete. Interesting conversation pieces.
Same with the camera. Is that a Digital Video Tape unit? The lens might be worth a couple bucks, depending on quality. 

Helmets are likely junk. Nobody will want to wear them. Not sure about the sights & mounts. Those might be worth a couple bucks.

Suits might be worth something (not a lot), if they are in good shape. If the material is worn or rotting (more likely rotting), then not. The problem with used suits (and the reason new ones cost so much) is that they are custom made to fit the buyer. Finding a buyer for a used suit depends on finding someone it fits well. 

The log book should have some dates and the name of the owner in it. I don't know if you'd find anyone to buy it. Kinda creepy. 

If you aren't a jumper (sounds like it), it might be worth your while to take all this out to a DZ and see what they say.
Are you in the LA area? 
Perris has a big gear store, and they'd be able to tell you what you have for canopies and all of that. They might give you an offer (lowish), offer to sell it on consignment (for a fee) or tell you to toss it in the garbage. 

I hope you didn't pay much for it. 

I can't see it being worth more than a few hundred (total for the entire group).


 

[riggerrob 558]

Yes!

Please post photos of the reserve packing data cards. They are hidden in a pocket just above the label.

[F104 Starfighter 2]

10 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Yes!

Please post photos of the reserve packing data cards. They are hidden in a pocket just above the label.

I checked the pockets under the Reserve flap and did not find a packing data card.

[F104 Starfighter 2]

15 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Oh my. That's some seriously old gear. Forget about what 'new ones cost'. 
Also, forget about C/L. Classifieds on here or some of the FB groups would be a much better place.

As far as the rigs go:

You need to find out when they were last repacked.
There should be a packing data card, it should be in a little pocket on the back of the label with the serial number on it (I think). That will tell you what reserve is in it and when it was last inspected & repacked. How many packs are on it (that matters) And who did it. 

You'd have to open up the main containers to see what main canopy is in it. 

Depending on the mains, there might be some value. But not a whole lot. 
There are a lot of riggers out there who won't pack or work on gear that old. 

However, you might find a newer jumper or a beginning camera flyer who would want one for a turn rig. Maybe. 

The altimeter might be worth a bit. Most of the kids these days go for digital, but some of the 'crusty old guys' prefer analog. The chest mount pillow is popular for wingsuiting. 

The Astra & Time Out are obsolete. Interesting conversation pieces.
Same with the camera. Is that a Digital Video Tape unit? The lens might be worth a couple bucks, depending on quality. 

Helmets are likely junk. Nobody will want to wear them. Not sure about the sights & mounts. Those might be worth a couple bucks.

Suits might be worth something (not a lot), if they are in good shape. If the material is worn or rotting (more likely rotting), then not. The problem with used suits (and the reason new ones cost so much) is that they are custom made to fit the buyer. Finding a buyer for a used suit depends on finding someone it fits well. 

The log book should have some dates and the name of the owner in it. I don't know if you'd find anyone to buy it. Kinda creepy. 

I can't see it being worth more than a few hundred (total for the entire group).


 

I checked the pockets under the Reserve flap and did not find a packing data card.

Do Parachutes have a "Do not use after" date attached to them or are they inspected by a Rigger who determines that? A person sent me an email saying that after 20 years, Reserve Parachutes are no longer repacked by Riggers.

The Gath Helmet has a closed cell foam liner and the interior is in good shape. The outside has some holes in it from the camera mount and eye sight. Kite Boarders, Windsurfers and Surfers use these Helmets also. The other 2 Helmets could be used as Movie Props or sell them to Skydiving Parents so their kids can run around the Drop Zone with them on. Cheap entertainment.

What would be the normal procedure for selling an unknown Rig? Could I ship them to a local Rigger in the San Francisco Bay Area, have them inspect and grade them and then determine their value? Do you know how much a Rigger would charge to inspect a Rig? Could I find an experienced Skydiver to do the same at a lower price?

Are you certain the Automatic Opening Devices are unusable?

What does the eyesight device do? Does it light up when the camera is on or does it act like an aiming device to assist the photographer in framing the subject?

Is the "Time Out" Device on the outside of the Gath currently being used? What does that do? Make a noise at a selected altitude to notify the camera man to open their parachute?

The Jumpsuits are in Good Clean Condition. I know sizing is specific, but if the former owner was an average size person, they are a Small, Medium Large or Extra Large in Size. Most people fit into one of those categories. I believe I know the prior owners name from the logbook. Do you know if I contact the Suit Manufacturer if they could check their records and give me the measurements that they used when they built the suit?

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by F104 Starfighter

[F104 Starfighter 2]

11 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Yes!

Please post photos of the reserve packing data cards. They are hidden in a pocket just above the label.

Are you a current or retired Rigger? 

What would be the normal procedure for selling an unknown Rig? Could I ship them to a local Rigger in the San Francisco Bay Area, have them inspect and grade them and then determine their value? Do you know how much a Rigger would charge to inspect a Rig? Could I find an experienced Skydiver to do the same at a lower price?

Do Parachutes have a "Do not use after" date attached to them or are they inspected by a Rigger who determines that? A person sent me an email saying that after 20 years, Reserve Parachutes are no longer repacked by Riggers. Is that correct?

Are the Automatic Opening Devices unusable?

Edited September 15, 2020 by F104 Starfighter

[F104 Starfighter 2]

Here is the information from the Logbook. Can you tell me what it means? The second photo says "First Jump" 6.16.02. Looks like Bill Dause was the instructor? What does the information on the first photo mean?

Edited September 15, 2020 by F104 Starfighter

[F104 Starfighter 2]

On 9/14/2020 at 5:00 AM, sfzombie13 said:

 if you want to get rid of the red one, let me know. 

I want to sell it. Can you leave me your phone number and I'll contact you?

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

12 hours ago, F104 Starfighter said:

I checked the pockets under the Reserve flap and did not find a packing data card.

Do Parachutes have a "Do not use after" date attached to them or are they inspected by a Rigger who determines that? A person sent me an email saying that after 20 years, Reserve Parachutes are no longer repacked by Riggers.

The Gath Helmet has a closed cell foam liner and the interior is in good shape. The outside has some holes in it from the camera mount and eye sight. Kite Boarders, Windsurfers and Surfers use these Helmets also. The other 2 Helmets could be used as Movie Props or sell them to Skydiving Parents so their kids can run around the Drop Zone with them on. Cheap entertainment.

What would be the normal procedure for selling an unknown Rig? Could I ship them to a local Rigger in the San Francisco Bay Area, have them inspect and grade them and then determine their value? Do you know how much a Rigger would charge to inspect a Rig? Could I find an experienced Skydiver to do the same at a lower price?

Are you certain the Automatic Opening Devices are unusable?

What does the eyesight device do? Does it light up when the camera is on or does it act like an aiming device to assist the photographer in framing the subject?

Is the "Time Out" Device on the outside of the Gath currently being used? What does that do? Make a noise at a selected altitude to notify the camera man to open their parachute?

The Jumpsuits are in Good Clean Condition. I know sizing is specific, but if the former owner was an average size person, they are a Small, Medium Large or Extra Large in Size. Most people fit into one of those categories. I believe I know the prior owners name from the logbook. Do you know if I contact the Suit Manufacturer if they could check their records and give me the measurements that they used when they built the suit?

 

In order:

I think the pocket is part of the little flap that the data label is on. 

Not really. Many riggers will refuse to work on gear that is more than 20 years old. Some European countries have that as a rule, but not in the US. Life limits are a subject of lengthy debate on here. The guys who are long-time, well respected riggers can't even agree. Some say there's no real life limit, but many riggers still won't touch older stuff for a variety of reasons - liability, knowledge of the gear, ability to find all the documentation, and on and on.

I doubt any jumpers would want to use those helmets. If you can find someone in another 'action sport' who wants them, great. Keep in mind that jump helmets are not impact rated.

The procedure would be the same as for any other rig. The lack of packing data card is 'not good', but it doesn't make them unsellable.
Have a rigger inspect it. If you are in the San Francisco area, I think the closest DZ is SkyDance. You could ship them, but it costs. You'd be better off taking a trip out there and visiting in person. Give a call to make sure there will be a rigger there when you show up. An "inspection & repack" (I&R) is usually between $75 - $100. To have a rigger open both main & reserve up and take a quick look shouldn't cost too much. A detailed 'pre sale' inspection would cost more, but I don't think you are looking for that now, you just want to see what's in there and look for any obvious issues. An experienced jumper could take a look, but they may or may not know what they are looking at.
You may be able to find someone closer who would let you bring the gear to them. 

Yes. Obsolete and 24 years old. I can't remember if the Astra has a life limit, but every modern one does and they're all shorter than that. 
A quick look on the FXC site doesn't show it under 'legacy products' that they still maintain.

It's just a sight. It shows the jumper where the center of the frame is. 

Yes. It's an audible (and apparently has a flashing light) to let you know when you reach a pre-set altitude (break off, pull, ect). The newest review is from a decade ago. I've never seen one in use. There are much better modern units.

Bev & Tony are both still around. However, I'd think it unlikely that they would be able to tell you the measurements of the buyer(s). I've never seen a serial number on a suit. They might be able to tell you what areas to measure to get an idea of what size they are (inseam is the one that comes to mind). 
You'd just have to let people try them on to see if it fit. You could put them on some 'representative' people to get an idea of how short/tall, fat/skinny they fit. 

[skytribe 16]

Astra AAD is obselete - FXC wont or dont have any batteries to replace and on emailing them told me it was expired.   So no value on that one.

[dudeman17 267]

Some interesting, if not fishy information here. That gear is from an estate sale? Well, that gear looks familiar to me, and the person I think it may belong to, as far as I know, is not dead. That gear may be stolen. (The name on the log book is not familiar to me.) Also, a 'first jump' in '02 is not consistent with licenses issued in '59-'61.

Might be time for a couple phone calls...

Edited September 15, 2020 by dudeman17

[kleggo 138]

thanks for the trip down memory lane.

and I agree "Also, a 'first jump' in '02 is not consistent with licenses issued in '59-'61.".

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

On 9/15/2020 at 3:31 PM, dudeman17 said:

Some interesting, if not fishy information here. That gear is from an estate sale? Well, that gear looks familiar to me, and the person I think it may belong to, as far as I know, is not dead. That gear may be stolen. (The name on the log book is not familiar to me.) Also, a 'first jump' in '02 is not consistent with licenses issued in '59-'61.

Might be time for a couple phone calls...

Possibly.

I would hope that any rigger that received gear from a random stranger, who got it at an 'estate sale', with no packing data card would check the 'stolen' lists. I would.

 

OTOH, the Astra, Time-Out & Mini DV camera are obsolete enough that if it was stolen, it was a while ago.

[riggerrob 558]

yes dear F104 Starfighter,

I am a semi-retired parachute rigger. I hold American, FAA Master rigger ratings for back, seat and chest. I have also packed a couple of lap type parachutes.

I Held Canadian Rigger A, Rigger B, Rigger Instructor and Rigger Examiner ratings. Since I live in Canada, I can only offer you advice over the intenet.

All the other comments are legitimate.

I suggest that you telephone Action Air at Yolo County Airport, near Sacramento and schedule a visit. Or contact Pete Swan, a Master Rigger who works near Lodi.

 

P.S. Back when I was young and beautiful - circa 1985 - I helped ship some of the last Canadian-built CF-104 Starfighters to the Turkish Air Force.

Edited September 19, 2020 by riggerrob
add a sentence

[mark 102]

I regret googling "Lisa Ann Pol."

[sfzombie13 307]

9 hours ago, mark said:

I regret googling "Lisa Ann Pol."

i kinda want to see the movie now...

[F104 Starfighter 2]

To clear up the myth/rumor on 20 year or older parachutes will not be repacked and certified, I spoke to a Rigger in the US and he said that the "20 year or older parachutes will not be packed and certified" IS A FALSE MYTH/RUMOR and that he has repacked and certified Pilots Parachutes that are 40 years and older.

The Rigger at Davis said he charges $25 per parachute or $50 to inspect the 2 parachutes and the container/harness...and write an inspection report where he states this as a Pass or Fail Type Inspection.

[piisfish 135]

9 minutes ago, F104 Starfighter said:

To clear up the myth/rumor on 20 year or older parachutes will not be repacked and certified, I spoke to a Rigger in the US and he said that the "20 year or older parachutes will not be packed and certified" IS A FALSE MYTH/RUMOR and that he has repacked and certified Pilots Parachutes that are 40 years and older.

The Rigger at Davis said he charges $25 per parachute or $50 to inspect the 2 parachutes and the container/harness...and write an inspection report where he states this as a Pass or Fail Type Inspection.

There Generally is no rule on dates In the US, but the rigger has the choice to NOT inspect/repack a rig. 
i would only sell it to someone who knows enough about gear and is looking for a water/smoke/desert OK to trash rig. Not for day to day operation. 

[mark 102]

21 minutes ago, F104 Starfighter said:

To clear up the myth/rumor on 20 year or older parachutes will not be repacked and certified, I spoke to a Rigger in the US and he said that the "20 year or older parachutes will not be packed and certified" IS A FALSE MYTH/RUMOR and that he has repacked and certified Pilots Parachutes that are 40 years and older.

The Rigger at Davis said he charges $25 per parachute or $50 to inspect the 2 parachutes and the container/harness...and write an inspection report where he states this as a Pass or Fail Type Inspection.

You can always find someone to agree with you if you are persistent enough.  All we ask is that you get video of your jump.  At least the landing.

National, Para-Phernalia, and Precision all choose not to service equipment more than 20 years old.  Sunpath and RI have made similar statements.  In these cases, the manufacturers acknowledge that these life limits are not legally binding, so riggers will not be in trouble with the FAA if they pack them.  They are still exposed to civil liability, but if they are not concerned about liability, they can be blase about finding themselves in court after an accident, being asked, "What exactly do you know that the manufacturers do not?"

Ask your "Rigger in the US" if he is okay with packing a RI Aviator pilot rig that is more than 15 years old, or if he is okay with packing a PD reserve with more than 40 packs (one that has not been reinspected and recertified by PD), or if he is okay with packing a Security 950 more than 10 years old.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

5 hours ago, mark said:

You can always find someone to agree with you if you are persistent enough.  All we ask is that you get video of your jump.  At least the landing.

National, Para-Phernalia, and Precision all choose not to service equipment more than 20 years old.  Sunpath and RI have made similar statements.  In these cases, the manufacturers acknowledge that these life limits are not legally binding, so riggers will not be in trouble with the FAA if they pack them.  They are still exposed to civil liability, but if they are not concerned about liability, they can be blase about finding themselves in court after an accident, being asked, "What exactly do you know that the manufacturers do not?"

Ask your "Rigger in the US" if he is okay with packing a RI Aviator pilot rig that is more than 15 years old, or if he is okay with packing a PD reserve with more than 40 packs (one that has not been reinspected and recertified by PD), or if he is okay with packing a Security 950 more than 10 years old.

Hi Mark,

Yet, skydivers do not hesitate to get into a 30-yr old airplane.

Jerry Baumchen

[sfzombie13 307]

7 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Mark,

Yet, skydivers do not hesitate to get into a 30-yr old airplane.

Jerry Baumchen

hell, my rig is within a month of one of the ones op has and i jump it regularly, in fact, i enjoy the hell out of it.  it's a great first rig and i have about $900 total in it. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by sfzombie13
typo

[skybytch 259]

On 9/18/2020 at 5:31 PM, riggerrob said:

 

I Held Canadian Rigger A, Rigger B, Rigger Instructor and Rigger Examiner ratings. Since I live in Canada, I can only offer you advice over the intenet.

All the other comments are legitimate.

I suggest that you telephone Action Air at Yolo County Airport, near Sacramento and schedule a visit. Or contact Pete Swan, a Master Rigger who works near Lodi.

Pete moved to Yolo county airport awhile back.  I'd suggest him over anyone else in the area. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

11 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Mark,

Yet, skydivers do not hesitate to get into a 30-yr old airplane.

Jerry Baumchen

Or a 50 year old one.

Straight tail 182s are 50's vintage. That makes them over 60 years old.

[F104 Starfighter 2]

The 2 Jumpsuits were sold so they are NOT available.