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kallend

The Number One Environmental President.

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Interesting juxtaposition of news stories from yesterday:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/environment/ct-trump-epa-coal-plant-pollution-rollback-20200909-2hwywrlojna7rjjx3aw7pl5g64-story.html

Trump EPA guts tough standards for toxic metals dumped into U.S. waterways by coal-fired power plants, including biggest polluter on Lake Michigan

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/us/politics/trump-drilling-environment-florida.html

Trump, Calling Himself ‘the No. 1 Environmental President,’ Green Washes His Record

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26 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Geopolitically and economically it is China.  Do you really think of Switzerland and Singapore as rivals to the U.S.?

Why do you think that economic gdp ranking and political power ranking is so important.?

‘We’re No. 28! And Dropping!’ A measure of social progress finds that the quality of life has dropped in America over the last decade, even as it has risen almost everywhere else.

Second link(above) is to the ranking of US by economists.

The 25 Best Countries in the World

Ranked: The 20 Happiest Countries In The World

Economic Freedom Rankings

Countries with the best heathcare system

Safest Countries In The World 2020

 

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1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Because it represents actual power, not some abstract touchy-feely nonsense.  There is economic, political and military power and your top two (Switzerland and Singapore) have next to none on all three counts.  Even if you want to include cultural influence (think music, TV and movies) your top two are a bust.

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1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Because it represents actual power, not some abstract touchy-feely nonsense.  There is economic, political and military power and your top two (Switzerland and Singapore) have next to none on all three counts.  Even if you want to include cultural influence (think music, TV and movies) your top two are a bust.

Oh! ok that explains allot.

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Hi folks,

Well, maybe I wasted my money on my Bachelor of Science in engineering:  

"We've had temperatures explode this summer. ... We want to work with you to really recognize the changing climate and what it means to our forests and actually work together with that science," said Wade Crowfoot, California's secretary for natural resources. "That science is going to be key because if we ignore that science and sort of put our head in the sand and think it's all about vegetation management, we're not going to succeed in protecting Californians." 

"It'll start getting cooler. You just — you just watch," the president said. 

"I wish science agreed with you," Crowfoot said. 

"Well, I don't think science knows, actually," he said.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/14/912799501/i-don-t-think-science-knows-visiting-fires-trump-denies-climate-change

And here I thought he knew everything.

Jerry Baumchen

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3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Well, maybe I wasted my money on my Bachelor of Science in engineering:  

"We've had temperatures explode this summer. ... We want to work with you to really recognize the changing climate and what it means to our forests and actually work together with that science," said Wade Crowfoot, California's secretary for natural resources. "That science is going to be key because if we ignore that science and sort of put our head in the sand and think it's all about vegetation management, we're not going to succeed in protecting Californians." 

"It'll start getting cooler. You just — you just watch," the president said. 

"I wish science agreed with you," Crowfoot said. 

"Well, I don't think science knows, actually," he said.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/14/912799501/i-don-t-think-science-knows-visiting-fires-trump-denies-climate-change

And here I thought he knew everything.

Jerry Baumchen

He may as well have said you have 15 fires, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.

I can't tell if I should believe him or if he's just trying to keep me from panicking.

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(edited)
12 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Well, maybe I wasted my money on my Bachelor of Science in engineering: ...

And here I thought he knew everything.

Jerry Baumchen

Well he's taking 38% of Americans with him:Polls show trust in scientific, political institutions eroding.

Perhaps another plague is needed to have the proper Darwin effect on trump/GOP anti-science and "Q" followers.

Australia 'The raging fires in Australia have burned over 12.35 million acres of land (2019)-- with at least 24 people killed and more than 2,000 homes destroyed by the blazes" Wildfires have now burned more than 4.6 million acres, killed 35 people,destroyed or damaged 3,500 structures, in the US as of 17 hours ago.

So trump has not made America first but the fire season is just getting started.

Edited by Phil1111

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(edited)
23 hours ago, murps2000 said:

He may as well have said you have 15 fires, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.

I can't tell if I should believe him or if he's just trying to keep me from panicking.

How many of those were arson?

Edited by turtlespeed

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In which state? Not sure of any in California yet this year but I could be uninformed in that regard. I'm mainly keeping track of the local ones which are mostly contained and have not been ruled arson yet, as far as I know. I can't imagine they will be because I was here for the lightning event in the Bay Area that started them. I've heard of one in Oregon reported as such. In 2018 a large fire near Ukiah was caused by arson. Anyway, where are you going with this?

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7 hours ago, murps2000 said:

In which state? Not sure of any in California yet this year but I could be uninformed in that regard. I'm mainly keeping track of the local ones which are mostly contained and have not been ruled arson yet, as far as I know. I can't imagine they will be because I was here for the lightning event in the Bay Area that started them. I've heard of one in Oregon reported as such. In 2018 a large fire near Ukiah was caused by arson. Anyway, where are you going with this?

Historically, there are political statements involved in the fires.

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27 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

For what it's worth, conservative mouthpieces in Australia pushed the arson narrative very, very hard during our bushfire season at the start of the year.

Fast forward to now, investigations have concluded that exactly zero bushfires were arson related.

How Rupert Murdoch is influencing Australia’s bushfire debate

The Australian: Murdoch-owned newspaper accused of downplaying bushfires in favour of picnic races

Rupert Murdoch is leading Australia to climate ruin

In America Murdoch is known as FOX news, same "news" different names.

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37 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

For what it's worth, conservative mouthpieces in Australia pushed the arson narrative very, very hard during our bushfire season at the start of the year.

Fast forward to now, investigations have concluded that exactly zero bushfires were arson related.

Zero?

This from the BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51125898

According to Australia's National Centre for Research in Bushfire and Arson, 13% of bushfires every year are deliberate and 37% are suspicious.

In the US state of California, 95% of wildfires are started by people - 7% of those by arson - according to Cal Fire, the state's fire service.

 

It sounds like they cannot make up their mind on the stats.

I would never have believed 75%

I was thinking more like 5%.  13% was surprising.

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(edited)
10 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Zero?

This from the BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51125898

According to Australia's National Centre for Research in Bushfire and Arson, 13% of bushfires every year are deliberate and 37% are suspicious.

In the US state of California, 95% of wildfires are started by people - 7% of those by arson - according to Cal Fire, the state's fire service.

 

It sounds like they cannot make up their mind on the stats.

I would never have believed 75%

I was thinking more like 5%.  13% was surprising.

There's a difference between a percentage of all fires, spread over time, being attributable to arson, versus a specific set of fires in one season that grew and combined to make for a national catastrophe.

Not disputing that arson happens or that overall figures are important. It's more a case of, were there arson cases last year? Absolutely! But none of them got out of control. Were any of the massive fires that killed billions of animals and made international headlines traced back to arson? No.

I raise this primarily because the Murdoch media here are heavily conservative and toe the anti-AGW line hard. Arson was an easy scapegoat to deflect attention from examining climate change as a trigger, and pushed extensively as a narrative. I am subsequently extremely wary of arson claims without further evidence.

Edited by mistercwood
EDIT: Speeling.

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5 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

There's a difference between a percentage of all fires, spread over time, being attributable to arson, versus a specific set of fires in one season that grew and combined to make for a national catastrophe.

Not disputing that arson happens or that overall figures are important. It's more a case of, were there arson cases last year? Absolutely! But none of them got out of control. Were any of the massive fires that killed billions of animals and made international headlines traced back to arson? No.

I raise this primarily because the Murdoch media here are heavily conservative and toe the anti-AGW line hard. Arson was an easy scapegoat to deflect attention from examining climate change as a trigger, and pushed extensively as a narrative. I am subsequently extremely wary of arson claims without further evidence.

Arson is a red herring in the entire wildfire/forest fire debate. A single thunderstorm can start dozens of fires in a single day. Only super dry conditions or prolonged drought produce the massive fires that are more common now. Reckless campers start more fires than all the arsonists put together.

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3 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Okay. So I'm still wondering what is your point? There are dozens of active fires in California right now, including at least 15 that are either close to or well above 100,000 acres in size. 

https://firemap.sdsc.edu/

This is a very comprehensive site for following them. The map has layers much like google, and it gets interesting when you overlay current and historic fires. Trends are noticeable. Of course, nothing is mentioned about causes, so it may not provide information that is of interest to you.

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