unkulunkulu 0 #1 July 18, 2017 We have just started jumping our 4way vfs team out of the airplane. An idea quickly came to my mind that knowing the relative wind direction during the exit/hill phase would help with our exits. I know from my limited experience that too small pullup-cord-like stripes will jitter too much and be quite bad indicators for such a task. On the other hand those really long stripes used on bigway jumps in base hinder performance too much I guess. Maybe someone has experience/ideas of how to approach this problem of creating a balanced solution and also safe for vfs setting (I guess a breakable connection point is a must, but is it enough?). Maybe just the whole idea is bogus and we should concentrate on smth different? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #2 July 18, 2017 unkulunkuluAn idea quickly came to my mind that knowing the relative wind direction during the exit/hill phase would help with our exits. I know from my limited experience that too small pullup-cord-like stripes will jitter too much and be quite bad indicators for such a task. On the other hand those really long stripes used on bigway jumps in base hinder performance too much I guess. I think it's a reasonable idea. Can't hurt to experiment as long as the streamer is not too close to your deploying parachute. I think you will just need to make them gradually longer until they work. Binding tape material is cheap and comes in a lot of nice colors. If nothing else you can get some cool pictures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
julius 0 #3 July 18, 2017 the relative wind at exit comes from the relative generator. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
julius 0 #4 July 18, 2017 http://www.yawstring.com/images/Photos/yawstring_photo.jpg a simple piece of yarn taped to tour visor would work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #5 July 18, 2017 Unlike a yaw string or something similar that is useful in forms of flight where minor relative wind differences can make a noticeable impact on efficiencies, that doesn't exist for us. First, I think focusing your attention on a string/ribbon/whatever during and after exits will do nothing more than draw your attention away from where it needs to be - the center and your relative position to the rest of the team. Second, I don't think the information such a piece of gear would provide is really applicable to the task at hand. If a jumper is so far out of whack that the indicator could be easily read and deciphered, the jumper's own position and movement would easily do the same thing. I think if you just stay focused on flying as a group, use video, and get some solid coaching, you will surpass the skill level at which a relative wind indicator could be of any value pretty quickly. It's a 10 pound solution to a 10 ounce problem. 2 centsChuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unkulunkulu 0 #6 July 18, 2017 I was only thinking about using it for debriefs with outside video, not live during the jump. Right now the only way to judge presentation to the relative wind of the whole group is by "majority vote" so to speak, i.e. pointing to the jumper who differs from the rest the most, which lead to a debate a couple of times. I thought it would be interesting to see the reality. Especially interesting to really see the yaw angle, does presenting too much "away" from the airplane cause instability later on on the hill. We do have an experienced 4way vfs jumper on the team, but I imagined that clarity provided by a streamer would be really great for understanding of what really goes on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #7 July 18, 2017 unkulunkuluI was only thinking about using it for debriefs with outside video, not live during the jump. Right now the only way to judge presentation to the relative wind of the whole group is by "majority vote" so to speak, i.e. pointing to the jumper who differs from the rest the most, which lead to a debate a couple of times. I thought it would be interesting to see the reality. Especially interesting to really see the yaw angle, does presenting too much "away" from the airplane cause instability later on on the hill. We do have an experienced 4way vfs jumper on the team, but I imagined that clarity provided by a streamer would be really great for understanding of what really goes on. Ah, I see. I'm still not sure that at freefall speeds the indicator would give a noticeable reading but it is an interesting concept. I would be more trusting of a good coach. A coach can typically look at body positions and relative movement to figure things out. I do like the idea of chasing better ways of getting results, though. It doesn't cost anything to explore.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unkulunkulu 0 #8 July 18, 2017 That's totally true, working on that. But I imagine that even with a very good coach a nice demonstration would only improve everyone's understating of the process. I just want to see this clear as day! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #9 July 19, 2017 It is all relative to being able to fly with others, body adjustments are crucial to maintaining relativity to the other jumpers no matter the direction of the relative wind. Exit timing, flying the hill and all of it! If people cannot see what they are doing in the video and make corrections in body position or try to think it out and make improvements and make honest evaluation of their skills to themselves and blame everything else....well...get and outside person who is a friend to none of you to evaluate the videos and give a non biased opinion! First few points if your competing should Be made on the hill...Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #10 July 19, 2017 Plastic barrier tape - like the police put up round a crime scene or workmen round a hole in the road. Buy a reel on Amazon or somewhere and tie a length to a shoelace. It'll only take you a couple of tries to find a length that works best. If it gets caught on something it will just break. If it doesn't work you've only wasted $5. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites