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DougH

Term Life Insurance

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Posted (edited)

There have been some old old posts on this but current data is everything with insurance. I am going to throw this out to FB but I am hoping this query will get some action on here too.

Does anyone currently have term life insurance policy that was written to include high risk activity (skydiving for fun, skydiving for hire).

Looking to find out what Companies are writing policies, and what the high risk premium surcharge is running.

I haven't been jumping at all this season because I have a newborn and COVID. But I want to get back up in the air, but I want to make sure my wife and son are covered. I do have a moderate group policy from my employer that doesn't specifically list skydiving or flying as an excluded activity, but I would like my own policy that was written to specifically cover the activity, even if it is spendy. Additionally, if I lose employment I don't want to lose all life insurance coverage for jumping so I have the option to sling drogues to make ends meet while I find new work.

I thought the USPA partnered with an insurance company for something similar, but I was struggling with their links.

Edited by DougH

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(edited)

You only need to add skydiving to the policy if you want coverage in a skydiving accident. If you're fine with no coverage for skydiving but coverage for everything else, there is no need to add it to the policy. Considering the likeness of death while skydiving relative to the additional cost, basic math and statistics would show it's not in your favor to add the coverage.

Edited by Westerly

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35 minutes ago, Westerly said:

You only need to add skydiving to the policy if you want coverage in a skydiving accident. If you're fine with no coverage for skydiving but coverage for everything else, there is no need to add it to the policy. Considering the likeness of death while skydiving relative to the additional cost, basic math and statistics would show it's not in your favor to add the coverage.

The man wants to protect his family. Despite your feeling that skydiving is not a significant risk, the reason many life insurance policies exclude it is that they employ very expensive actuaries who know that statistically speaking, you are wrong.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Westerly said:

You only need to add skydiving to the policy if you want coverage in a skydiving accident. If you're fine with no coverage for skydiving but coverage for everything else, there is no need to add it to the policy. Considering the likeness of death while skydiving relative to the additional cost, basic math and statistics would show it's not in your favor to add the coverage.

No shit huh? Why do you think I would be asking about life insurance that COVERS a skydiving accident on a Skydiving website if that wasn't exactly what I wanted to do. I have a CPA license, I think I have a rudimentary understanding of how math and statistics and insurance all works. 

Consistently helpful though. Big thumbs up.

It doesn't matter if the odds are low. I want to protect my wife and kids if Joe Fuckstick hooks a 180 in to me in the pattern. Or if I end up with a really awesome set of tension knots on a tandem reserve. Etc etc.

The low odds won't pay off the mortgage or living expenses if I am on the wrong end of the percentages.

Edited by DougH

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(edited)

haah get

1 hour ago, DougH said:

 I have a CPA license, I think I have a rudimentary understanding of how math and statistics and insurance all works. 

 

haahha let me make sure I got this right. You're a freaking steller CPA who understands how math, statistics and insurance all works, but somehow you cant figure out how to get a quote on an insurance premium and do a bit of shopping around? Also, as a professional CPA, your first thought to obtain professional advice on your job is to go to a skydiving forum on the Internet and ask a bunch of unqualified randos for professional advice? Freaking steller. Please spray me down with your resume some more. Clearly you work in the best of circles. 

Edited by Westerly

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1 hour ago, Westerly said:

haah get

haahha let me make sure I got this right. You're a freaking steller CPA who understands how math, statistics and insurance all works, but somehow you cant figure out how to get a quote on an insurance premium and do a bit of shopping around? Also, as a professional CPA, your first thought to obtain professional advice on your job is to go to a skydiving forum on the Internet and ask a bunch of unqualified randos for professional advice? Freaking steller. Please spray me down with your resume some more. Clearly you work in the best of circles. 

You have outdone yourself this time. Congrats.

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(edited)

I was seeing if anyone had any recent policies written so I could narrow down which companies are willing the underwrite the high risk surcharge.

Go climb back under your bridge, you are equally useful under there. 

Edited by DougH

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4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

You have outdone yourself this time. Congrats.

I honestly don't know why the owners of the site allow him to continue to drag down the forums in general with his drivel. It is unhelpful trolling, drunken rambling about how terrible tandems are because he has social problems and was a shit employee, etc. Much of the useful posting is long gone and we are left with monkeys that spend their time flinging shit.

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Sorry, my policies were all Whole Life, not Term.  I thought I did pretty well with the premiums, though they were higher than Term policies I've heard of.  On the other hand, they didn't charge me extra for extreme sports (but they did as a 'smoker' because I admitted to enjoying a cigar every year for the Marine Corps birthday)

The nice thing about my WL policies was that, because they are long-term, they built up equity.  I recently converted all four policies into a "reduced, paid up" status -- meaning I never have to pay the premiums again, and the combined payout to my beneficiaries is worth $96k based on what I contributed over the years already.  The combined value of the four policies while I was paying premiums was $250,000, with premiums of about $260-ish/month (as I recall -- it was part of a lump sum I paid to my combined retirement account that went to pay mutual fund contributions as well as insurance premiums).

In case you want to check them out, the company is Liberty National.  YMMV.

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When I had term insurance (quite a while ago now), it was through a professional group, IEEE (electrical and electronic engineers).  Their policies had no exclusions including acts of war, except suicide within the first two years of coverage.   Perhaps there is a professional accountant organization you can join, which has similar insurance plans.

I calculated that just the odds of a skydiving fatality gave me a positive expected value.  I was in my early 30's, so term insurance was quite cheap.

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6 hours ago, headoverheels said:

When I had term insurance (quite a while ago now), it was through a professional group, IEEE (electrical and electronic engineers).  Their policies had no exclusions including acts of war, except suicide within the first two years of coverage.   Perhaps there is a professional accountant organization you can join, which has similar insurance plans.

I calculated that just the odds of a skydiving fatality gave me a positive expected value.  I was in my early 30's, so term insurance was quite cheap.

Great idea. There are similar professional associations for accountants, the main one is the AICPA. You may be right, they may have a similar lack of exclusions not unlike employer group policies. Thanks!

8 hours ago, TriGirl said:

Sorry, my policies were all Whole Life, not Term.  I thought I did pretty well with the premiums, though they were higher than Term policies I've heard of.  On the other hand, they didn't charge me extra for extreme sports (but they did as a 'smoker' because I admitted to enjoying a cigar every year for the Marine Corps birthday)

The nice thing about my WL policies was that, because they are long-term, they built up equity.  I recently converted all four policies into a "reduced, paid up" status -- meaning I never have to pay the premiums again, and the combined payout to my beneficiaries is worth $96k based on what I contributed over the years already.  The combined value of the four policies while I was paying premiums was $250,000, with premiums of about $260-ish/month (as I recall -- it was part of a lump sum I paid to my combined retirement account that went to pay mutual fund contributions as well as insurance premiums).

In case you want to check them out, the company is Liberty National.  YMMV.

Thanks TriGirl.that is an option for sure. Whole life policy premiums are normally significantly higher but you do build equity like you said, there can be tax advantages too. I think I would be looking at 4k to 6k in premiums a year for a 500k death benefit for a male in my age range. I wish I had taken one out in my early twenties when I first started working and I had some financial advisors pitching them, but at the time the premiums seemed even bigger to me relative to what I was earning right out of school.

Edited by DougH

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On 8/19/2020 at 10:14 PM, DougH said:

I think I would be looking at 4k to 6k in premiums a year for a 500k death benefit for a male in my age range. I wish I had taken one out in my early twenties when I first started working and I had some financial advisors pitching them, but at the time the premiums seemed even bigger to me relative to what I was earning right out of school

I was lucky -- my first one was for $100k at age 29.  That particular company offered increases at the same rate of $50k at a time as long as I took them when offered every 3 years.  Once I hit $250k, I stopped taking them.  I was 49 when I took the "paid up" option to lock in that $96k permanent benefit.

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(edited)
On 8/18/2020 at 9:27 PM, Westerly said:

Вам нужно только добавить в политику прыжки с парашютом, если вы хотите страховать несчастный случай с парашютом. Если у вас нет страховки на прыжки с парашютом, но есть страховка на все остальное, нет необходимости добавлять ее в полис. Учитывая сходство смерти во время прыжков с парашютом с учетом дополнительных затрат, базовая математика и статистика показывают, что добавлять покрытие не в вашу пользу.

Hmm, I think a little differently. It is better to include, in any case, since we know how cunning these insurance agents are.

Statistics are not the best

USPA-Safety-Graph-2018.png

Edited by HowardWow2020
Didn't finish)

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On 8/18/2020 at 6:19 AM, DougH said:

 

Does anyone currently have term life insurance policy that was written to include high risk activity (skydiving for fun, skydiving for hire).

Hi Doug.

We had our child in February of 2019 and I purchased term insurance that specifically covers skydiving. Our insurance provider is Principal. The cost was 2 dollars per thousand of coverage, which was by far the cheapest I found. I actually have two policies due to the expense. 500K that covers skydiving and 500K that excludes skydiving. One policy that excludes skydiving is about 400. The other that covers skydiving is about 1400. I have super preferred rating based on physical.

I found through the process that some insurance providers would downgrade your health status if Skydiving was included. That never made sense to me. I found Principal to be up front with everything and very easy to deal with.

The policy that does not cover skydiving has an aerial exclusion...due to my answers to the questions on skydiving. The policy that covers skydiving doesn't have the exclusion. I only mention this since I had been expecting a 'rider' to cover skydiving but its not set up that way.


Good luck and congrats! Let me know if you have any questions.

Marcel

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1 hour ago, jacketsdb23 said:

Hi Doug.

We had our child in February of 2019 and I purchased term insurance that specifically covers skydiving. Our insurance provider is Principal. The cost was 2 dollars per thousand of coverage, which was by far the cheapest I found. I actually have two policies due to the expense. 500K that covers skydiving and 500K that excludes skydiving. One policy that excludes skydiving is about 400. The other that covers skydiving is about 1400. I have super preferred rating based on physical.

I found through the process that some insurance providers would downgrade your health status if Skydiving was included. That never made sense to me. I found Principal to be up front with everything and very easy to deal with.

The policy that does not cover skydiving has an aerial exclusion...due to my answers to the questions on skydiving. The policy that covers skydiving doesn't have the exclusion. I only mention this since I had been expecting a 'rider' to cover skydiving but its not set up that way.


Good luck and congrats! Let me know if you have any questions.

Marcel

Thanks Marcel! Congrats to you and your family as well.

This is great information, I will take a look at Principal.

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