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ghostdog

AFF level 3 goes wrong! Rate this instructor!

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I do not know the details of this Video or the instructor but the Instructors performance was very poor on this jump to say the least :shock:

He was not anywhere near to be in a position to assist the Student when it mattered most.

but as Skybitch mentioned, i also be concerned about the student and or his training.

make 2 attempts to pull then go for reserve deployment.

some one should pull the instructor aside and have a talk with with him about his/ her performance and get their side of the story.

Glad the AAD worked :handstogether:

 

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I do not wish to comment on the instructors performance.  If you feel is was deficient it would be best to review the jump with the student, yourself and the instructor in order to identify problems and find solutions.  If the instructor is truly incompetent not having your friend jump with fixes nothing and may leave others exposed.   

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Doesn't add up. If it really is an AFF jump that is not a level 3, if anything would be a level 5. Otherwise it may be a coached jump which would explain the inactions and distancing by the coach/instructor, and the fact he didn't hold onto the student for deployment.

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15 hours ago, ghostdog said:

He couldn't find the pilot chute handle

He had a reserve handle, right? Why didn't he pull that? 

The AAD fire had nothing to do with the instructor, unless that instructor trained him and neglected to talk about that. By level 3, a student should be able pull their own reserve if they can't find the main handle, and they should know what to do if an instructor isn't there at pull time.

Shit happens, I signed the waiver, it's on me to save my own life.

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6 hours ago, skybytch said:

By level 3, a student should be able pull their own reserve if they can't find the main handle, and they should know what to do if an instructor isn't there at pull time.

Actually, that should be firmly ingrained before level 1.

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On 8/14/2020 at 5:40 PM, dudeman17 said:

Actually, that should be firmly ingrained before level 1.

i've never done aff so forgive me if this is a stupid question.  on level 1, doesn't the main side instructor pull for the student if they don't find it?  i can certainly understand it being ingrained before level 1 since we do it with our fjc on iad students.  but that is because nobody is there as a backup.  didn't know if it would be different of if the student gets 2 tries and goes silver without the affi pulling.

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On 8/14/2020 at 9:15 AM, GoneCodFishing said:

Doesn't add up. If it really is an AFF jump that is not a level 3, if anything would be a level 5. Otherwise it may be a coached jump which would explain the inactions and distancing by the coach/instructor, and the fact he didn't hold onto the student for deployment.

exactly what i was thinking!!

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On 8/13/2020 at 7:08 PM, ghostdog said:

Got this video from a friend and it was his AFF level 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHU20nCXdiU

What do you think about his instructor?! I told him to never jump with this instructor again

AFF Level 3???. Camera mount on his helmet, yellow googles, and no sign of a radio? Does anyone here not doubt what is before their eyes? Rig #22 so it's not a tiny DZ. Wings rig so it's likely in the US which agrees with the ridiculous decals on his helmet. Whatever. The DZO needs to get out of the business if this is really an AFF Level 3. If it's the Coach jump it appears to be then USPA needs to take the sign down or quit rating coaches, if the Coach was even rated. Even so, it's back on the DZO. If your coaches suck that bad and you send them up anyway you are in the wrong business.

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We all know what we signed up for when going thru AFF, what happened to the student isn't uncommon and messing up is also part of progression, however this coach was all over the place - as some have pointed could be working on levels etc - but the reaction once he opens canopy shows you the kind of AFFI he is.

I dont think the coach/AFFI did anything dangerous, however the DZ and its students needs to rethink working with him. 

We had an AFFI like that at the DZ, all he cared about was fun jumping (which is fine) but when he was needed for AFF,Tandem or cam he would bitch and complain. He didn't last long in our DZ.

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On 8/16/2020 at 5:51 AM, sfzombie13 said:

i've never done aff so forgive me if this is a stupid question.  on level 1, doesn't the main side instructor pull for the student if they don't find it?  i can certainly understand it being ingrained before level 1 since we do it with our fjc on iad students.  but that is because nobody is there as a backup.  didn't know if it would be different of if the student gets 2 tries and goes silver without the affi pulling.

AFF first jump training includes what to do if one or both instructors are not there at pull time.  A level 1 AFF student should know what to do if they can't find the main handle even if the instructor is there.

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, skybytch said:

AFF first jump training includes what to do if one or both instructors are not there at pull time.  A level 1 AFF student should know what to do if they can't find the main handle even if the instructor is there.

 

 

 

i understand that, but the question was would someone pull for the student or let the student go on down if he/she were not getting it?  i would think that the affi would grab the pilot chute after two or three tries if the student were not going for silver, but am not sure how they are trained to respond. 

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43 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

i understand that, but the question was would someone pull for the student or let the student go on down if he/she were not getting it?  i would think that the affi would grab the pilot chute after two or three tries if the student were not going for silver, but am not sure how they are trained to respond. 

Ideally yes, the instructor will pull for the student if they miss it twice.

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On 8/17/2020 at 8:18 AM, Nabz said:

We all know what we signed up for when going thru AFF, what happened to the student isn't uncommon and messing up is also part of progression, however this coach was all over the place - as some have pointed could be working on levels etc - but the reaction once he opens canopy shows you the kind of AFFI he is.

I dont think the coach/AFFI did anything dangerous, however the DZ and its students needs to rethink working with him. 

We had an AFFI like that at the DZ, all he cared about was fun jumping (which is fine) but when he was needed for AFF,Tandem or cam he would bitch and complain. He didn't last long in our DZ.

????? The idiot instructor did everything wrong except not leave the aircraft. The student was basically looking good. A little in person coaching from someone with more fall rate and body control than the student would have turned this jump into a huge success. 

Yes, the instructor did gobs of things that were dangerous. I got my AFF rating in 1988. I've done more AFF than most people have jumps. I'm telling you, based on my actual experience, this was horrible. 

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 11:17 PM, JoeWeber said:

????? The idiot instructor did everything wrong except not leave the aircraft. The student was basically looking good. A little in person coaching from someone with more fall rate and body control than the student would have turned this jump into a huge success. 

Yes, the instructor did gobs of things that were dangerous. I got my AFF rating in 1988. I've done more AFF than most 

I never said he was not an idiot. I even said that the DZ needs to reconsider working with him.

Since you have thousands of AFFI jumps, can you tell me what was dangerous about the coach ?

 

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1 hour ago, Nabz said:

I never said he was not an idiot. I even said that the DZ needs to reconsider working with him.

Since you have thousands of AFFI jumps, can you tell me what was dangerous about the coach ?

 

Well, at 35 seconds, where he zooms under the student, he was being dangerous. His inability to control his fall rate or position in the sky relative to the student is dangerous. The video is of a single jumpmaster, harness hold exit, student jump. That's an AFF Level 4 type jump. His skills were not even close to being up to the task of helping or saving the student. That is dangerous.

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2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Well, at 35 seconds, where he zooms under the student, he was being dangerous. His inability to control his fall rate or position in the sky relative to the student is dangerous. The video is of a single jumpmaster, harness hold exit, student jump. That's an AFF Level 4 type jump. His skills were not even close to being up to the task of helping or saving the student. That is dangerous.

Thanks for the explanation, from your perspective as a AFFI, I see how he wasn't up to the task. I saw exactly what you are describing, I saw it also as a coach that panicked and was all over the place trying to save the student, what I found idiotic was his reaction to the jump once it was all over. 

I tend to see it from my PoV that when I was a student I didn't rely on anyone to save my life, even if the AFFI is fully trained and competent at his job, at the end of the day if shit really hits the fan, he's pulling when the altitude isn't there anymore. Someone before me asked why didn't the student pull. That to me is dangerous as well, relying on someone else.

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1 hour ago, Nabz said:

Thanks for the explanation, from your perspective as a AFFI, I see how he wasn't up to the task. I saw exactly what you are describing, I saw it also as a coach that panicked and was all over the place trying to save the student, what I found idiotic was his reaction to the jump once it was all over. 

I tend to see it from my PoV that when I was a student I didn't rely on anyone to save my life, even if the AFFI is fully trained and competent at his job, at the end of the day if shit really hits the fan, he's pulling when the altitude isn't there anymore. Someone before me asked why didn't the student pull. That to me is dangerous as well, relying on someone else.

You're welcome and, as for relying on yourself, you're right. With AFF, yes, we're trained to pull at our hard decks no matter. That said, there shouldn't be any no matter moments. You should be there teaching and acting as a safety back up. Period.

The sport needs more people like you who look for deeper understanding. Thanks for asking.

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2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You're welcome and, as for relying on yourself, you're right. With AFF, yes, we're trained to pull at our hard decks no matter. That said, there shouldn't be any no matter moments. You should be there teaching and acting as a safety back up. Period.

The sport needs more people like you who look for deeper understanding. Thanks for asking.

Always looking to learn man and thank you for taking the time to reply and not thinking I was trolling you :)

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8 hours ago, Nabz said:

Always looking to learn man and thank you for taking the time to reply and not thinking I was trolling you :)

No worries. Seriously, one other thing that seemed real to me was that this was a bandit jump. That is a non-rated instructor at a couldn't give a shit DZ. Sadly, there is still a lot of that in our sport.

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On 8/14/2020 at 11:37 AM, skybytch said:

By level 3, a student should be able pull their own reserve if they can't find the main handle, and they should know what to do if an instructor isn't there at pull time.

Shit happens, I signed the waiver, it's on me to save my own life.

By Level 1 / Cat-A they should too!  Eh?  ;-) 
All a part of the very FJC EP's training (or should be!)

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15 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

No worries. Seriously, one other thing that seemed real to me was that this was a bandit jump. That is a non-rated instructor at a couldn't give a shit DZ. Sadly, there is still a lot of that in our sport.

Didn't even think of that and honestly didn't even know there was such a thing as AFF bandit jumps. CRAZY!!

If the student was aware of that and was trying to cut corners by going to this "No Shits Given DZ " than he is to blame as well.

 

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