USPA wants to increase your dues

[Ron 7]

gowlerk

You should get involved with USPA. I'll bet if you did you would have a firm grasp on what the budget is and why they want an increase

1. I ran for SERD in a special election.
2. I have communicated with the BOD several times over many issues.
3. I have callled the HQ on numerous occasions and been invited to meet with them to assist in research.
4. I have a firm grasp on budgeting, to include how the travel reimbursement works.

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But since you don't know

Already proven that your comments were false and without merit.

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I'll bet you didn't even vote last time around.

Wrong AGAIN, how many more BS accusations are you gonna try to sell?

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How much money do you want them to spend on communicating with you? Read the minutes of the meetings and you will know. Or drop your membership. Or whatever.

How about they use the very tool they created to communicate to the memebership? The magazine!

Fact is they are a member organization and they should, I don't know, communicate with the memebers.

I now wait for you to make more BS unsubstantiated claims devoid of any evidence instead of discussion points.

Currently you stand at two strikes, what fabrication or outright lie are you gonna try next?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tkhayes 125]

what do you get for your dues? How about a decision by the Feds 20 years ago to NOT tax skydiving at a federal level that saved you at least 10% of the cost of every skydive you ever made?

How about the assistance with the sales tax issue that allowed states to go after tandem skydives as amusement rides, which would have put sales tax on skydiving and quite possibly set a precedent to tax ALL skydives?

If you are wondering about what your dues pay for, those two alone saved you enough money to make every due you ever paid worthwhile.

And if you are wondering about why GM memberships may not be going up? 300 dropzones times say a $100 increase is $30,000 in revenue.

a $10 increase in 30,000 membership dues is $300,000 in revenue. do the math.

[baronn 111]

May want to check yer facts. Inflation is extremely low and headed lower. The USPA is, has been and will continue to be 1 of the worse run organizations I have ever been associated with. And no, I don't have the time or desire to run for a seat and try to rite this ship. Way too much of a losing battle IMO. This is the same organization that decided it was a good idea to Bully the owners of Skyride and yank their personal memberships and group membership because they didn't like them. A federal judge ruled in favor of Skyride in Federal court in 22 min. The USPA agreed to the settlement ONLY if the records of the settlement were kept sealed. They have never revealed what the fine from that stupid decision was and now want to raise fees. Gee, sounds a LOT like another organization that is located along the east coast....

[jlmiracle 7]

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a $10 increase in 30,000 membership dues is $300,000 in revenue. do the math.

Its $14.00 increase to renew, not $10.

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How about a decision by the Feds 20 years ago to NOT tax skydiving at a federal level that saved you at least 10% of the cost of every skydive you ever made?

Is that a question or a statement?

I am just trying to figure out if this dues increase is for the museum, Ed Scott wanting a raise or what. I read the minutes and the agenda and it doesn't really give me the information I'm looking for. What are they hiding?

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[billvon 2,395]

>Great make that option easy . . . .
Your wish is granted! Just check the box.

>and don't bother trying to raise rates!
I don't think the rate increase has anything to do with the current system people use to opt out of getting the magazine.

>Ipads != to a magazine...
And magazine != higher rates.

[Ron 7]

billvon

>and don't bother trying to raise rates!
I don't think the rate increase has anything to do with the current system people use to opt out of getting the magazine.

Well, "you don't think".... Maybe the USPA should actually tell us WHY they want to raise the membership instead of me just taking your "I don't think" as gospel?

The USPA should publish the agenda for the BOD meetings in the magazine. Then they should publish the meeting notes in the magazine to include voting records.

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>Ipads != to a magazine...
And magazine != higher rates.

But you DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WANT HIGHER fees and that is the very point. You just "don't think" it has to do with the magazine, but you have no clue what it actually is for.

I don't see the BOD telling the members of a membership organization why they want to raise the rates as a controversial position to take. And they should do it in an open way, not in some meeting note.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,395]

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Well, "you don't think".... Maybe the USPA should actually tell us WHY they want to raise the membership instead of me just taking your "I don't think" as gospel?

I don't expect you to take anything as gospel. Believe whatever you like.

[Ron 7]

billvon

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Well, "you don't think".... Maybe the USPA should actually tell us WHY they want to raise the membership instead of me just taking your "I don't think" as gospel?

I don't expect you to take anything as gospel. Believe whatever you like.

Yet you actually do based on your position.

I fail to see why expecting the BOD to tell the membership, in a membership organization, why they want more money is a controversial position worthy of your ire.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,395]

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I fail to see why expecting the BOD to tell the membership, in a membership organization, why they want more money is a controversial position worthy of your ire.

I have no problems with the BOD telling the membership why they want more money.

It's like you are arguing with someone else over a topic only you know.

[johnhking1 70]

I sat through the last Board Meeting in February and the treasurer, Albert Berchtold, explained in detail why the dues needed to be raised. I won't try to explain everything but it is not just the current 2% inflation but the inflation every year since the last dues increase. Why don't you e-mail him at [email protected] for a detailed explanation.

[Ron 7]

billvon

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I fail to see why expecting the BOD to tell the membership, in a membership organization, why they want more money is a controversial position worthy of your ire.

I have no problems with the BOD telling the membership why they want more money.

It's like you are arguing with someone else over a topic only you know.

The posts speak for themselves. I am done wasting my time since you don't seem interested in actually having a discussion, but trying to start some issue.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Hooknswoop 19]

Let's face it. USPA doesn't care. Why bother justifying the increase? They will raise the dues and the membership will pay it. Why? because they have no (real) other choice but to pay it.

Derek V

[gowlerk 1,905]

Hooknswoop

Let's face it. USPA doesn't care. Why bother justifying the increase? They will raise the dues and the membership will pay it. Why? because they have no (real) other choice but to pay it.

Derek V

Of course they care. All of them, every one, are skydivers. I'll bet most of their friends are skydivers. They hang at DZs and deal with skydivers all the time. Just because you don't know many of them yourself doesn't mean they are just nameless faceless bureaucrats. Maybe you think they do the work for money, power, and glory?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JellyBelly 0]

Attached: Ed Scott on the possible dues increase, from the March "Parachutist" magazine.

[chuckakers 370]

Hooknswoop

Let's face it. USPA doesn't care.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[DiverMike 5]

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Very simply, the overhead costs postage, printing, travel, employee health care, outside services and the rest continue to increase. More members mean we print and mail more magazines and pay higher credit card transaction fees

That is a little too simple, and doesn't quite pass the BS test for me. More people are paying more money, so we have to print more magazines and buy more stamps. They are giving us more money using credit cards, so we have to pay 3% of it back to credit card companies.

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outside services and the rest

Sounds more like the Gilligan's Island Theme than rationalization for dues increase.

I don't like it when the cable company increases prices. Like any other monopoly, I don't have a choice. If I want to skydive in the US, I almost have to be a USPA member.

It is possible USPA is extremely efficient and well worth the money. I don't know because there is no other competition to keep them 'honest' in a free market. I taught SCUBA for 15 years and didn't mind paying the high fees as an instructor to PADI, because there were other agencies I could do certification through and I realized I was paying to be part of the best agency.

The dues in skydiving are still far less than SCUBA diving, so I don't really feel I am being taking advantage of until I hear the reasons are we have to print more magazines and buy more stamps. What percentage of expenses are they compared to Health care cost and travel?

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[baronn 111]

Certainly a blanket statement and can't be applied to all of the BOD. You Chuck take your time and efforts to organize at your local DZ. Very commendable. But, let's Look at the actions of some other's. After the incident in Lodi last year, the USPA decided to yank another personal membership of the DZO. Now we can go back and forth about that justification but, let's look at what an organization that truly DID care about keeping their members in the air, could have done, Instead of yanking the ratings (and in many cases, the livelyhood) of the instructors that got innocently caught up in that shit storm and then making them (and charging them) to get re-certified, They cude have sent Tom Noonan or Jay Stokes out there and helped get them back in the air. But, no. That didn't happen. In retaliation for being involved with someone that has thumbed his nose at the USPA for a long time, anybody and everybody became a target. This bully behavior is just SOP for this organization and will no doubt continue. Don't wonder USPA why you are getting so much backlash on this. Your history and behavior in the past is reaching the boiling point. Just like folks are finally waking up to how badly we have been getting screwed and lied to by our own government, the awakening is happening here. You are judged by your actions. Don't like the judgement? Change your Fucking actions and start proving you really are worth what you ask for.

[billvon 2,395]

>Let's face it. USPA doesn't care.

Sure they do. I've been to several of their meeting and I've seen them in action. Know a few of them pretty well, and they definitely care.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Let's face it. USPA doesn't care.

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Sure they do.

I am not convinced. Just one example; The lowering of the AFFICC standards in response to the Instructor shortage.

Derek V

[billvon 2,395]

>I am not convinced. Just one example; The lowering of the AFFICC standards in
>response to the Instructor shortage.

What did they say when you talked to them about it?

I'll give you two examples of them listening to skydivers.

I advocated for a few years for a graduate course for skydivers. After AFF there was a big gap between graduation and your license, and people were often "cast adrift" doing solos until they could get their A-license - and learning after that was often haphazard. I wrote an article about it for USPA, and talked to several USPA people about it. A few years later, the ISP was introduced. They listened.

After Bob Holler was killed by Danny Page, several of us went to USPA and demanded that DZO's separate landing areas. I didn't expect to get much out of the meeting other than making then aware of our feelings on the issue. In that meeting, we got a change to the Group Member Pledge pushed through to require separation of landing areas.

So from my perspective, if you make your wishes known, they listen. They may not always do what you want, but they do listen.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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What did they say when you talked to them about it?

Nothing, no reply to my email.

How did lowering the standard benefit the membership?

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we got a change to the Group Member Pledge pushed through to require separation of landing areas.

Haha, DZ's either separate the landing areas or they don't, GM pledge be damned.

Derek V

[Ron 7]

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That is a little too simple, and doesn't quite pass the BS test for me. More people are paying more money, so we have to print more magazines and buy more stamps. They are giving us more money using credit cards, so we have to pay 3% of it back to credit card companies.

Reminds me of the joke punchline: "I lose money on every unit, but I make it up in VOLUME!"

If they are doing OK at 30k people, and doing worse if we add 5K people... Then their business plan SUCKS. Also, in almost every industry you get discounts for more, not less. So if it costs "X" per unit to print and sell 30K magazines, it should cost the same or less to print and ship 5K more. Yes, the actual number will be bigger, but the UNIT cost should be the same or lower.

So they are trying to claim that more members means we are spending more on shipping... Yeah, but they also brought in more money due to the memberships.

So unless the USPA loses money on each member, the reason given is BS.

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The dues in skydiving are still far less than SCUBA diving

For instructors. But I am certified OW/AD/MS/CAVE/Normoxic and Hypoxic Trimix and spend exactly ZERO per year to be a diver. Just to skydive at most places in the US I have to pay 55 a year.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,395]

>Nothing, no reply to my email.

Ever try to call them? Talk to your regional director? Go to a meeting?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Nothing, no reply to my email.

Ever try to call them? Talk to your regional director? Go to a meeting?

Isn't this moving the goal post?

Last time I talked to RD, it was to tell them someone was doing AFF without an AFFI rating. They replied, "What do you want me to do, take away a rating they don't have?"

How did lowering the standard benefit the membership?

Derek V

[billvon 2,395]

>Isn't this moving the goal post?

I don't think so.

I've spoken to USPA before and they have listened. Not all my emails were returned - but most were. When I spoke to the board, not everyone agreed - but enough did to make the change.

If I had written one email on the subject, sent it to one board member and didn't get a reply, I would assume it had gotten lost or sent to spam or something. If I wrote six to different people and they were ALL unanswered I would start to suspect they weren't listening.

>How did lowering the standard benefit the membership?

I don't think it did. It was a poor decision. They've made a few of them. The decision to exclude any mention of BASE for years was another bad decision (fortunately reversed.)