New skydiver, spend money on new container and then buy used canopies?

[Dzander21 0]

So the people at the drop zones I've jumped have told me i would be wasting my money getting a 190 and I would get bored with it to quick, I weigh around 160 and I know I'm addicted and will stay in the sport for awhile hopefully make it a job one day to, I have a little bit of money to spend and I was thinking of buying a new container and then buying used canopies any fed back on this idea is appreciated thanks.

[tkhayes 124]

I jumped the same canopy for 450 jumps, then jumped the next one for 500 jumps. There is a lot you can do with even a larger parachute.....getting 'bored' is not likely, especially if you decide not to and just continue to seek out new information, techniques, take Flight-1 classes and continue to progress.

[Phil1111 908]

tkhayes

I jumped the same canopy for 450 jumps, then jumped the next one for 500 jumps. There is a lot you can do with even a larger parachute.....getting 'bored' is not likely, especially if you decide not to and just continue to seek out new information, techniques, take Flight-1 classes and continue to progress.

^^^
This.

Why by a new harness/container because when you downsize the canopies will be too big. Buy everything used. Spend your money on jumps. As far as bored is concerned read all the incidents where jumpers got over their heads by downsizing too soon, too aggressively.

[skytribe 16]

tkhayes

I jumped the same canopy for 450 jumps, then jumped the next one for 500 jumps. There is a lot you can do with even a larger parachute.....getting 'bored' is not likely, especially if you decide not to and just continue to seek out new information, techniques, take Flight-1 classes and continue to progress.

Couldnt agree more - people these days get obsessed with downsizing quickly. Jumping a canopy that gets you down safely in all conditions and really learning how to fly it is a way to stay in the sport for the duration. Downsizing too quickly and hurting yourself is a recipe for an early exit from the sport.

As for new container and old canopies. I would say buying decent used gear that work is a reasonable idea. I've seen some really nice new rigs get scuffed up dirty real quick as jumpers crash land while they are still learning. It is possible to buy and older container and have it re-harnessed for about 400 bucks which then will make it fit you well.

Use the saved money for jumping/coaching etc.

[Alexg3265 0]

buy used everything... period... at least till you know for damn sure youre going to keep it for a good long while... which you may think is now but its not. listen or dont, but i'd bet money youll be selling that brand new container a couple hundred jumps from now taking a big monetary hit where you could have bought something else used and even made money depending....
ive bought one parachute new and regretted it in 100 jumps... i was going to be on that thing for "at least a thousand..."
my x wife bought a new container and parachute...and sold it 200 jumps later because she downsized out of it.... both were a massive hit financially

I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

[Dzander21 0]

So I am choosing to listen but I am curious as to opinion on the parachute systems summer special four grand for the complete system seems how most of the used stuff im looking at is around 3 to 5 thousand is that a good beginner rig?

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[EvilGenius 0]

I reckon you could pick up a decent+complete second hand rig for around $3500 including an AAD. That summer special deal doesn't cover an AAD so if you're into that kind of thing you'll spend ~$5000.

I know new stuff is pretty but you'll probably be able to sell the second hand gear after a few hundred jumps for close to the price you pay for it. Ask around grab some second hand gear and just jump it for a bit while you decide what gear you really like.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

A couple points:

You are still brand new. Everybody says they are in it for the long haul. Not everyone is.

What are your long term goals? Some people want to fly the fastest, most responsive canopy they can. Others simply want to get down safely and easily. I'm about your size (155lbs out of the shower) and I jumped a 190 for a long time. I'm currently on a 170 and have no plans to downsize any further. Others have a different path.

While you can fit several sizes of canopy in a given rig, there's really only one size that fits best. Overstuffing puts a lot of strain on seams, grommets and stiffeners and is a pain to pack. "Understuffing" isn't the best practice either.

How are your landings? Getting a "nice shiny new rig" all dirty and scuffed up is depressing. Taking that "learning" wear and tear out on a used rig is a much better choice.

When comparing cost, make sure you are comparing "apples to apples." Used (complete w/AAD) should run from somewhere below $3k on up. You can get an older (but still airworthy) rig for less than that. It may not be freefly friendly, and it won't have all the bells and whistles, but it will do the job for a while.
Just like a car, the big depreciation comes in the very beginning.

Your money, your choice, but you may notice that just about everyone is suggesting used instead of new.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DiverMike 5]

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You are still brand new. Everybody says they are in it for the long haul. Not everyone is.

+1

I've been doing it for 6 years and still haven't bought new gear yet. There is a lot of good used gear available.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[Croc 0]

Many new jumpers who downsize too quickly find out, perhaps on a gusty or no-wind day, that they were too hasty. This leads to "gear fear" which leads to stopping jumping altogether. Don't be one of them. Buy used and wear that sucker out.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[JohnMitchell 14]

A few things nice about a new rig:

Your favorite colors.
Perfect fit.
The smell of it. . .

So, it's a bit more money, but if you want it, get it. Used canopies aren't a bad idea.

[CygnusX-1 42]

Here is something to consider. I've owned 2 rigs in my skydiving life. I weigh about 165 lbs (without rig). My first rig I bought was used. It was for a 190 parachute. I kept it and jumped it for about 3 years. Then I bought a brand new rig to fit a 150 main/PDR143 reserve. I've had that rig now for something like 13 years. In this rig I've had a Firebolt 149, Stiletto 135 (with logo on bottom), Sabre 2 120 (this was just a demo), Comp Velo 111, and Comp Velo 103. All of these canopies had fit in the rig and I have no issues with "loose" packing. Although the 103 if it wasn't brand new could be considered a little loose. So if you are choose your canopies right and wait a little bit, a rig can last a long time and have plenty of options for future advancement.

[Ron 7]

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So the people at the drop zones I've jumped have told me i would be wasting my money getting a 190 and I would get bored with it to quick

Bored? You are jumping out of a freaking airplane, headed straight at the ground and only through skill and a bit of luck will your first parachute work. I'd be much more worried about not dying than getting bored.

And I'll make a bet that the vast majority of people telling you that you will get bored can't do everything that a 190 can do. Let me be the first to tell you that after 7.5K+ jumps, pro rating, CRW stacks from two ways to 16 way diamonds, and jumping canopies from rounds to 69xft canopies that I could still learn things from/on a 190. Unless the guy telling you that you will get bored is one of the top canopy pilots in the world.... They could most likely still learn something on a 190.

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I know I'm addicted and will stay in the sport for awhile

Meh, everyone claims that. Would you like some phone numbers of people that were never going to stop jumping and now don't jump anymore?

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I have a little bit of money to spend and I was thinking of buying a new container and then buying used canopies

First rig, buy used for almost ALL components. Rig - Used. Main -Used. Reserve - New or used (brand and size is more important that new or used. AAD - New or used. Jump suit - Used if you can find on that fits, new if you can't. Helmet.... UH, I'd get new, just me.

You will find better deals on rigs with all components... So a rig with a main and reserve and AAD will normally cost less than trying to piece them all together one at a time.

My first rig, used. Made 370ish jumps on it and then bought a new one. If you make it to 300-500 jumps, you will know what brand you like, what colors you want, what size you want... Etc. Right now you can only go from others opinions.

If you buy used, you can sell and not take a big hit. If you buy new.... Yeah, you will take a hit on value.

Buy used, if you make 300-500 jumps, then look at where you are and what you want.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[maxhogg 0]

Not disagreeing with the weight of advice above, but I just wanted to give another perspective.

tldr; I bought new sub-100 jumps, love it, would do exactly the same again.


I rented gear for 6 months (from Rhomech rigging in UK - well recommended if anyone is UK-based) before buying all new.

This rental period meant I got down to a canopy size that I have no current interest in downsizing beyond (150 sq ft) and have now used for 150 jumps or so. I currently can't imagine moving away from the canopy for at least another 500 jumps and got the canopy new for a price that I will be able to resell without much loss of value (£1480). I may well use this canopy for as long as I am in the sport, or until it reaches the end of its life.

In honesty I would have gladly bought second hand everything but knew exactly what I wanted and couldn't find exactly that second hand.

I searched out the best deals I could find and ended up spending £4310 without AAD. With the AAD included it will be £5360 (I'm renting an AAD for a year to spread the costs a little).

This approach has upsides and downsides. Upsides:
- I LOVE having new gear. Canopy colours, canopy choice, knowing that if I look after the stuff I can keep it in top condition for a long time all matter. But most of all...
- The rig fits like a glove. I bought a Fire container and even compared to other made-to-measure rigs people regularly comment on how little it moves away from my body when sit flying. It is also incredibly comfortable (back to that in a minute).
- All the parts of the rig are built to play with each other nicely. If you specify your canopies on the order to SWS, they will build the container to match those canopies.
- I was able to install a larger reserve (Opt 176) than my main - this was disturbingly hard to find amongst the second hand rigs I considered.

Downsides:
- Initial cost outlay was considerably higher than second hand. I probably spent £2000 more than I needed to to get a decent second hand rig.
- The big downside: I bought and used a 150 sq ft canopy at a 1.25 wing loading well before anyone sensible would recommend me doing so. From first purchase I have been happy landing in any wind direction and conditions, and have been on several canopy courses since I bought it. But I also recognise I was playing with fire initially.

Overall, if I was to do it again I'd do the same thing. I don't generally place much value on material possessions, but love my rig. It was well worth the extra outlay for me. I didn't have the issue that I have heard many times about damaging or scuffing the rig through biffing early landings. To me that is a separate issue about someone's landing technique.

One last anecdote: one of my closest jumping friends bought his first rig second hand at about the same time as me and we have progressed together through the sport. He spent £2800 on a decent second hand setup, but it never real fitted properly and was uncomfortable as hell (I know, we swapped rigs the other day). He is just now purchasing his second rig (not sure of cost). He has probably not spent as much on his two rigs as I spent on one, but it'll be close. And his first rig held him back while learning to freefly and has caused him to buy this other rig instead.

[DougH 270]

Find the right used container. You can check measurements with the serial numbers if the owner is unsure.

I bought one of my containers used with AAD, and an appropriate main and reserve for my experience at that time.

I waited to find one that was close to the sizing I would have ordered custom.

I still use it 11 years later, although it has had different canopies in it several times over.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[TriGirl 268]

DougH

Find the right used container. You can check measurements with the serial numbers if the owner is unsure.

To the OP: everyone is different. I couldn't find a used rig that was 1) close enough to my size (would have spent the same $$ on used rig + resizing the harness), and 2) fit the sizes of main canopies I wanted. So, I ordered new. It's comfortable, I like it, and it not only fits the canopy I still use (170), but will fit one size smaller when (if) I'm ready to downsize.

The main I have in it was bought used, but it was a demo canopy. Right around the time the skydive shops are getting the new model for demo, they'll have last year's demo for sale at a reduced price. It was about as close to new as you can get, and I knew it had been stored and inspected correctly by the shop.

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I waited to find one that was close to the sizing I would have ordered custom.

I still use it 11 years later, although it has had different canopies in it several times over.

Also a good idea, but if you're not within the "average" sampling of height/weight, you may be waiting quite a while. It does take some work and time to find that used gear -- or some may fall into your lap. But everyone posting here has brought up some really valuable pros and cons (mostly pros) for being patient for used gear. Your situation, however, may vary, so take those elements into consideration. I wouldn't judge you just for getting a whole new custom rig, if you can afford it, and if it gets you just what you want. And now you realize the risks of lost value, but it's up to you.

But yeah, there is some good stuff out there if you're willing to wait if necessary.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!