Confessions of a US health insurance executive

[kallend 1,621]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/08/06/health-insurance-canada-lie/?arc404=true

In my prior life as an insurance executive, it was my job to deceive Americans about their health care. I misled people to protect profits. In fact, one of my major objectives, as a corporate propagandist, was to do my part to “enhance shareholder value.” That work contributed directly to a climate in which fewer people are insured, which has shaped our nation’s struggle against the coronavirus, a condition that we can fight only if everyone is willing and able to get medical treatment. Had spokesmen like me not been paid to obscure important truths about the differences between the U.S. and Canadian health-care systems, tens of thousands of Americans who have died during the pandemic might still be alive.

etc.

Lots of detail follows

[Phil1111 908]

I have posted dozens of studies and surveys in these forums showing:

- Lower costs with national health care systems. Per person and overall.U.S. health system costs four times more to run than Canada’s single-payer system

The GOP and industry lobbyists are responsible for Americans who died of covid because of no insurance.

From Politico The Army Built to Fight ‘Medicare for All’ The top health industry lobbies have joined forces to take down socialized medicine — or anything that looks like it. Will they succeed?

"Kahn made a phone call — and then, over the next few weeks, another and another. Those calls would lead to a series of secretive meetings in downtown D.C. where officials from every part of the health care industry — from insurance companies to hospital giants, drugmakers and even, for a time, doctors — would forge an alliance united to ensure that Sanders’ promises never became reality.

Out of their pact grew an influence operation known today as the Partnership for America's Health Care Future, a multimillion-dollar cooperative designed to overwhelm not just the swelling Medicare for All movement, but every single Democratic proposal that would significantly expand the government's role in health care."

Edited August 9, 2020 by Phil1111

[Coreece 189]

38 minutes ago, kallend said:

In my prior life as an insurance executive, it was my job to deceive Americans about their health care. I misled people to protect profits.

Can't really say that I'm surprised, but I was expecting better examples of "misleading" people than the quote below.  Today it seems like this type of stuff is common practice, tho it's easier to fact-check.

From Article:

Here’s an example from one AHIP brief in the binder: “A May 2004 poll found that 87% of Canada’s business leaders would support seeking health care outside the government system if they had a pressing medical concern.” The source was a 2004 book by Sally Pipes, president of the industry-supported Pacific Research Institute, titled “Miracle Cure: How to Solve America’s Health Care Crisis and Why Canada Isn’t the Answer. . .”

. . .We didn’t know, for example, who conducted that 2004 survey or anything about the sample size or methodology — or even what criteria were used to determine who qualified as a “business leader.”

 

Anyway, who knows - perhaps Canada's healthcare system significantly improved since the last century.  I lived in a high-rise condo in downtown Detroit in the late 90s that overlooked Canada and the Ambassador Bridge.  It seemed everyday there were numerous ambulances crossing the bridge from Canada - and I thought to myself, "there's a testament to the quality of Canada's healthcare system - they bring their sick people to Detroit for help." 

[Phil1111 908]

Australia and NZ seem to get the best bang for the buck. The US is by far the most expensive. There is variability in the rankings but the top twenty- thirty countries all have good outcomes for care. Depending on the parameters used to judge satisfaction.

Rankings of world's best healthcare systems

1. United Kingdom
2. Switzerland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Germany
6. The Netherlands
7. New Zealand
8. Norway
9. France
10. Canada
11. U.S.A

20 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Can't really say that I'm surprised, but I was expecting better examples of "misleading" people than the quote below.  Today it seems like this type of stuff is common practice, tho it's easier to fact-check.

From Article:

Here’s an example from one AHIP brief in the binder: “A May 2004 poll found that 87% of Canada’s business leaders would support seeking health care outside the government system if they had a pressing medical concern.” The source was a 2004 book by Sally Pipes, president of the industry-supported Pacific Research Institute, titled “Miracle Cure: How to Solve America’s Health Care Crisis and Why Canada Isn’t the Answer. . .”

. . .We didn’t know, for example, who conducted that 2004 survey or anything about the sample size or methodology — or even what criteria were used to determine who qualified as a “business leader.”

 

Anyway, who knows - perhaps Canada's healthcare system significantly improved since the last century.  I lived in a high-rise condo in downtown Detroit in the late 90s that overlooked Canada and the Ambassador Bridge.  It seemed everyday there were numerous ambulances crossing the bridge from Canada - and I thought to myself, "there's a testament to the quality of Canada's healthcare system - they bring their sick people to Detroit for help." 

You start by suggesting that you want defined concise examples. Yet you conclude by offering a personal observation in which you can't state for certain if the ambulances contain US patients or Canadian patients in the ambulances. Rather than personal experiences there are scientific studies that rely upon empirical examples in the tens of thousands. In addition there have been thousands of studies on the subject.

World Health Organization ranking of health systems in 2000

From The Commonwealth Fund:

 

[Coreece 189]

42 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You start by suggesting that you want defined concise examples.

No I didn't.

 

42 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Yet you conclude by offering a personal observation in which you can't state for certain if the ambulances contain US patients or Canadian patients in the ambulances.

There were about 2000 Canadian patients admitted into Michigan hospitals between 1994 and 1998 - not many in the grand scheme of things, but it's still not a stretch to say that many of those came by way of ambulance over the Ambassador bridge.

But whatever Phil, yes it was anecdotal, you got me.  I know you're busy fighting the good fight against the Russians, but after the election - regardless of who wins - will you promise to at least try to find a sense of humor?  We're gonna need it.

[Phil1111 908]

40 minutes ago, Coreece said:

No I didn't.

'Can't really say that I'm surprised, but I was expecting better examples of "misleading" people than the quote below.  Today it seems like this type of stuff is common practice, tho it's easier to fact-check....

 

There were about 2000 Canadian patients admitted into Michigan hospitals between 1994 and 1998 - not many in the grand scheme of things, but it's still not a stretch to say that many of those came by way of ambulance over the Ambassador bridge.

But whatever Phil, yes it was anecdotal, you got me.  I know you're busy fighting the good fight against the Russians, but after the election - regardless of who wins - will you promise to at least try to find a sense of humor?  We're gonna need it.

You're right that many Canadians travel to US hospitals for treatment, most of it specialized. Some in order to "jump the queue" so to speak. IMO NZ, Australia are the countries with the best bang for the buck are the countries to be emulated.

Canada needs improvement. NZ for example buys drugs for far less than Canada. They manage to negotiate prices at far less than almost any other advanced country. The reasons for that is if those countries spent more they should get a far superior general health outcome.Countries like India and those in Africa get larger discounts from drug makers because of economic disadvantages.

This isn't the best example and doesn't include NZ

I'll admit a lack of humor in some respects. Issues surrounding corruption and people in positions of power taking advantage of others get my blood boiling fast. I have a very low threshold for that and I tend to go overboard sometimes on those issues.

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

5 hours ago, kallend said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/08/06/health-insurance-canada-lie/?arc404=true

In my prior life as an insurance executive, it was my job to deceive Americans about their health care. I misled people to protect profits. In fact, one of my major objectives, as a corporate propagandist, was to do my part to “enhance shareholder value.” That work contributed directly to a climate in which fewer people are insured, which has shaped our nation’s struggle against the coronavirus, a condition that we can fight only if everyone is willing and able to get medical treatment. Had spokesmen like me not been paid to obscure important truths about the differences between the U.S. and Canadian health-care systems, tens of thousands of Americans who have died during the pandemic might still be alive.

etc.

Lots of detail follows

Hi John,

I 'think' it was about a week or so ago that Trump said that he and the Republican leadership would have a new health care plan ready to go in two weeks.  He has about a week to go, let's give him the week.  I am sure that you know, it will be the best, the very best of health care plans.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,384]

14 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi John,

I 'think' it was about a week or so ago that Trump said that he and the Republican leadership would have a new health care plan ready to go in two weeks.  He has about a week to go, let's give him the week.  I am sure that you know, it will be the best, the very best of health care plans.

July 19 actually which was about three weeks ago.  “We’re signing a health-care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health-care plan”- Trump, July 19, 2020.  But don't worry!  It's coming real soon now  It will happen right after Mexico pays for the wall and he releases his taxes.

[Coreece 189]

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

You start by suggesting that you want defined concise examples.

No I didn't.

 

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

No I didn't.

'Can't really say that I'm surprised, but I was expecting better examples of "misleading" people than the quote below.  Today it seems like this type of stuff is common practice, tho it's easier to fact-check....

Right, I said I was expecting "better examples."  The example given WAS "defined and concise," but I'm not really surprised, and don't really blame insurance execs for citing research that supports their position regardless if they fact check it or not.  I blame elected officials for their lack of due diligence and just taking the word of some lobbyist.  It further demonstrates why we once again need to implement our own in-house research organizations like we did prior to their dissolution starting in the late 90s.

 

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

 

The problem goes beyond just pharmaceuticals, but it looks like the US is subsidizing the rest of the world.  How about all those rich people we hear about in nordic countries start paying their fair share.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

6 minutes ago, Coreece said:

How about all those rich people we hear about in nordic countries start paying their fair share.

Hi Coreece,

I have not heard from even one rich people in any nordic country.  Have you?  What did they say to you?

Jerry Baumchen

Edited August 9, 2020 by JerryBaumchen

[Coreece 189]

9 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

15 minutes ago, Coreece said:

How about all those rich people we hear about in nordic countries start paying their fair share.

Hi Coreece,

I have not heard from even one rich people in any nordic country.  Have you?  What did they say to you?

That they're losing their EV subsidies.  Pharmaceuticals should be next.

[kallend 1,621]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi John,

I 'think' it was about a week or so ago that Trump said that he and the Republican leadership would have a new health care plan ready to go in two weeks.  He has about a week to go, let's give him the week.  I am sure that you know, it will be the best, the very best of health care plans.

Jerry Baumchen

THREE weeks ago today he promised it within two weeks.

No-one believes him any more, except the truly gullible.

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

  I blame elected officials for their lack of due diligence and just taking the word of some lobbyist.  It further demonstrates why we once again need to implement our own in-house research organizations like we did prior to their dissolution starting in the late 90s.

The problem goes beyond just pharmaceuticals, but it looks like the US is subsidizing the rest of the world.  How about all those rich people we hear about in nordic countries start paying their fair share.

Every politician from mayor, to governor, to congressman, to senator, to whoever has assistants. They research and prepare reports for the elected officials.

Then there is: THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG PRICING REDUCTION ACT OF 2019

A PRICE TOO HIGH Cost, Supply, and Security Threats to Affordable Prescription Drugs

Hundreds or reports prepared by government departments. What lobbyists bring to the equation is cash, i.e. political donations. There are research jobs involved that are high paying. But thats a bit of a red herring.

Yes the US subsidizes the rest of the world somewhat.But that arises because the the US has multiple buyers, a lack of transparency and other countries are single payer. So they can be tougher negotiators.

The difference between a single state buyer Sweden and 300-400 US insurance companies, state and wholesalers. Most likely accounts for most of that difference.

The true story of America’s sky-high prescription drug prices. Good story on simplified basics. The world thanks America

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

THREE weeks ago today he promised it within two weeks.

No-one believes him any more, except the truly gullible.

Its election season, expect more promises. Evidently there is a new vaccine that President trump is going to launch. "Operation Hyper-Speed". Its a vaccine to prevent aging in white men only. If he's re-elected trump promises it free to old white men.

[Coreece 189]

9 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The true story of America’s sky-high prescription drug prices. Good story on simplified basics. The world thanks America

From Article:

The United States is exceptional in that it does not regulate or negotiate the prices of new prescription drugs when they come onto market. Other countries will task a government agency to meet with pharmaceutical companies and haggle over an appropriate price.

 

Is that when other countries threaten the drug companies with compulsory licensing?   Interesting that your "true story" doesn't seem to say anything about that, eh?

[Phil1111 908]

8 minutes ago, Coreece said:

From Article:

The United States is exceptional in that it does not regulate or negotiate the prices of new prescription drugs when they come onto market. Other countries will task a government agency to meet with pharmaceutical companies and haggle over an appropriate price.

 

Is that when other countries threaten the drug companies with compulsory licensing?   Interesting that your "true story" doesn't seem to say anything about that, eh?

Yes and no. India plays hardball on new drugs Inside India: India’s Fight Against Big Pharma Patents Is a Just War

There are a few other very poor counties that are somewhat in between. But all advanced countries have treaties recognizing patents for very similar lengths of time. India sort of gets a walk because of its poverty.

[Coreece 189]

3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

all advanced countries have treaties recognizing patents for very similar lengths of time.

Right, until they threaten a company with compulsory licensing if they don't get their way.  Canada already can do that if they wanted to - and now they want to speed up the process in light of covid.

[gowlerk 1,903]

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

That they're losing their EV subsidies.  Pharmaceuticals should be next.

Just because Americans are stupid enough to let the pharmaceutical industry pay the politicians to keep prices high does not mean the rest of the world should fall into the same trap.

Edited August 9, 2020 by gowlerk

[Coreece 189]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

That they're losing their EV subsidies.  Pharmaceuticals should be next.

Just because Americans are stupid enough to let the pharmaceutical industry pay the politicians to keep prices high does not mean the rest of the world should fall into the same trap.Just because Americans are stupid enough to let the pharmaceutical industry pay the politicians to keep prices high does not mean the rest of the world should fall into the same trap.

You sound like a broken parrot.

[gowlerk 1,903]

41 minutes ago, Coreece said:

You sound like a broken parrot.

I’m sure you mean a working parrot.

[Phil1111 908]

43 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Just because Americans are stupid enough to let the pharmaceutical industry pay the politicians to keep prices high does not mean the rest of the world should fall into the same trap.

IMO it's more of an effective lobby system and a political system that can't overcome it. The advertising that you'll lose your doctor, that the competitive system provides benefits, etc. Is so ingrained that facts can't seem to overcome lobby efforts. US senior groups can't seem to make any headway.

Its disheartening to see the busloads of US seniors coming to Canada to save on drug costs. To hear of the sacrifices they have to make to pay for medication. Or worse having to forgo medication altogether. My mother gets an eye injection for high inter ocular pressures every three months or so. The drug cost is $500 the co-pay for uninsured is $25.

[Coreece 189]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Its disheartening to see the busloads of US seniors coming to Canada

Nothing wrong with senior day trips to the slot machines - the drug costs are just a bonus.

But I've heard Caesars Windsor tightened up quite a bit since we've legalized it here.

 

But seriously tho, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't entertained the idea of medical tourism lately - it's kind of a no brainier for some procedures.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Coreece

[turtlespeed 212]

20 hours ago, Coreece said:

Nothing wrong with senior day trips to the slot machines - the drug costs are just a bonus.

But I've heard Caesars Windsor tightened up quite a bit since we've legalized it here.

 

But seriously tho, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't entertained the idea of medical tourism lately - it's kind of a no brainier for some procedures.

 

[RonD1120 58]

I don't pay much attention to health insurance. In fact, many years I had none at all.

Now my wife and I have a Medicare Supplement Plan F through AARP. We each pay about $200/mo. We have no co-pays. We have a drug plan with WellCare that runs about $16/mo. Many of our regular Rx meds are free or less than $20.

As a back up, I maintain active patient status with the VA. I get a physical 1X/yr. My Rx meds are cheaper with WellCare.

Whenever we need medical care we pray and ask the Lord to guide us to the best Christian physician available.

[turtlespeed 212]

13 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

I don't pay much attention to health insurance. In fact, many years I had none at all.

Now my wife and I have a Medicare Supplement Plan F through AARP. We each pay about $200/mo. We have no co-pays. We have a drug plan with WellCare that runs about $16/mo. Many of our regular Rx meds are free or less than $20.

As a back up, I maintain active patient status with the VA. I get a physical 1X/yr. My Rx meds are cheaper with WellCare.

Whenever we need medical care we pray and ask the Lord to guide us to the best Christian physician available.

I call on the pharmaceutical companies, and ask for discounts.  They usually give me about 50% or better.

I recommend everyone do that - they are usually pretty open handed.