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airdvr

Hypocrisy of the left

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7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Too bad that seldom leads to consequences for the LEO. They seldom are held responsible and seldom are willing to hold each other responsible. They exist in an "us versus them" world. And that is not going to change without a fight.

Don't forget that they ALL both passively and actively cover up for those 'bad apples'.

None of them will 'rat out' a 'brother officer'. 

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8 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Don't forget that they ALL both passively and actively cover up for those 'bad apples'.

None of them will 'rat out' a 'brother officer'. 

Pretty much.  There might not be that many "bad apples," but there are even fewer good cops that will rat them out.

I shake my head, thinking about my own employers (semiconductor design companies) having similar employee culture.  None would have stayed in business.  Yes, you get people protecting marginally competent friends, but nobody I ever worked with would protect criminal or grossly incompetent coworkers.  Good riddance, and get back to busting our asses. 

 

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10 hours ago, airdvr said:

No...it's not the protesters that are looting and setting fires.  Once you destroy property you are no longer a protester.  And, once a LEO steps outside of the bounds of the law he is no longer fit for duty.

airdvr, you don't get it. You live in a world of forced false equivalencies. Have you never wanted to punch a wall or break something? Can you not imagine being that pissed off or frustrated? Cops sign up to play by different rules. Things have morphed to where they can snub those rules. Few do, that's true. But with cops it shouldn't be a percentage game because, especially now in 2020, they have the power. Life and death power. How is that so hard for you to understand?

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Laws are all we have to differentiate ourselves from chaos.  We need someone to enforce those laws.  Give me examples where LEO murdered someone who was just walking down the street.  These things always start with the victim breaking the law in some fashion.

Look at the Rayshard Brooks video.  There was a very clear point where the cop could have gotten control of the situation with a chokehold.  But that option has been removed.  Not saying Rayshard Brooks should have been shot like that but it might have been avoided altogether if the police had the tools they need to do their jobs.

I understand completely the need for change but we've put the police in no-win situations time and again.

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16 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Laws are all we have to differentiate ourselves from chaos.  We need someone to enforce those laws.  Give me examples where LEO murdered someone who was just walking down the street.  These things always start with the victim breaking the law in some fashion.

Look at the Rayshard Brooks video.  There was a very clear point where the cop could have gotten control of the situation with a chokehold.  But that option has been removed.  Not saying Rayshard Brooks should have been shot like that but it might have been avoided altogether if the police had the tools they need to do their jobs.

I understand completely the need for change but we've put the police in no-win situations time and again.

So a cop choking someone to death who is already in handcuffs is a no win situation?

So someone who is unarmed, shot in the back multiple times is a no win situation?

So someone unarmed running away from their car in a traffic stop, with their verified drivers license in the possession of LE.Is shot in the back is a no win situation?

The common factor is the refusal of LE to step back from deadly force and deescalate. The continued use of force when the training dictates that in custody means protecting the suspects life. Because the courts deal with punishment not LE.

 

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6 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I don't disagree Phil, but you can't neuter the entire force and expect them to be able to do their jobs.  And yes, the unions need  reigned in.

I know lots of cops and used to go shooting with them fairly often. They collectively view  criticism of bad cops as an assault on their jobs and personal identity. They are shortchanged by bad pay, poor training and a overemphasis on lethal defense. Lethal defense because the public is always ready to kill them. That every interaction with the public is inherently dangerous and the Glock on the hip is your way home that night.

Specialty training of hostage rescue specialists where they emphasize talking, waiting, listening, deescalation is missing in beat cops. For beat cops its order, expect compliance and resistance licensees lethal force. LE needs more emphasis on backing off, calling more backup, patience and deescalation.

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1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Laws are all we have to differentiate ourselves from chaos.  We need someone to enforce those laws.  Give me examples where LEO murdered someone who was just walking down the street.  These things always start with the victim breaking the law in some fashion.

Look at the Rayshard Brooks video.  There was a very clear point where the cop could have gotten control of the situation with a chokehold.  But that option has been removed.  Not saying Rayshard Brooks should have been shot like that but it might have been avoided altogether if the police had the tools they need to do their jobs.

I understand completely the need for change but we've put the police in no-win situations time and again.

You only reinforce my points. Step away from the obvious fact that law enforcement is a social necessity. No one is arguing otherwise. Nor is anyone arguing that the overwhelming percentage of cops are not good people out doing a hard and sometimes dangerous job well. The argument is that none of that is an explanation, much less an excuse, for killing citizens who are not in the act of harming someone. The argument is that what's missing is a softer touch and some serious, real time, accountability when bad cops do horrible things like shoot someone several times in the back at close range. The argument is that there is no valid argument that we need accept those acts as an inevitable cost of our general societal protective scheme.

 

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2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Laws are all we have to differentiate ourselves from chaos.  We need someone to enforce those laws.  Give me examples where LEO murdered someone who was just walking down the street.  These things always start with the victim breaking the law in some fashion.

Here's a report about a woman just standing inside HER OWN HOUSE shot and killed by police:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/13/fort-worth-police-officer-fatally-shoots-woman-her-home-while-checking-an-open-front-door/

 

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1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I don't disagree Phil, but you can't neuter the entire force and expect them to be able to do their jobs.  And yes, the unions need  reigned in.

Explain why it takes 10 years for British police to kill as many people as US cops kill in an average month.

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On 9/17/2020 at 4:42 PM, SkyDekker said:

Except that when LEO steps out of bounds they tend to be put on paid administrative leave for a few years. Generally even if fired, they get rehired by another agency. 

Because there are labor laws, unions, and a litigious society.

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11 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Because they don't have the criminal element we have here.

Funny, I remember the days of gun rights arguments here when all you right wingers would be wailing about how incredibly high the crime rate was in the UK because good people couldn't carry guns. 

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5 hours ago, jakee said:

Funny, I remember the days of gun rights arguments here when all you right wingers would be wailing about how incredibly high the crime rate was in the UK because good people couldn't carry guns. 

Well, they need the cause of that to be different now.  Wait a year and it will be because they are English wimps or something.

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