Hypocrisy of the left

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

8 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

...What chapped my ass was Skydekker calling the US a shit hole country. We are not. We currently suck, that's a fact. That said, I respectfully submit that some Canadians might show a tad more restraint given the curve of history.

We are currently run by an idiot with despotic aspirations.

This idiot is likely a Russian agent.

He's effectively removed most of the oversight of his actions, surrounded himself with toadies, 'yes men' and a bunch of characters who act in their own self interest, to the great detriment of the country.

He's used anonymous 'federal agents' on peaceful protesters, not just once.
His own underlings, convicted of committing crimes to his benefit, have been let loose.

We are suffering this pandemic at levels so far above the rest of the world, levels beyond imagination. 
Here we are, the 'richest country in the world', the country with medical care that's the best (although the most expensive) in the world, and we have infections and deaths something like 6 times what the rest of the world has seen on a per capita basis. 

The rest of the world has it under control. We're seeing it ramp up even further. 
And congress can't even give any help to it's citizens. Just to the big corporations. And the big organized religious groups.

Call it a 'banana republic'. Call it a 'shithole'. 
Call it whatever you like.

The US has abdicated it's position as a 'world leader'. 

It's pathetic. 
Hopefully it will change. 

[Phil1111 908]

7 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

We are currently run by an idiot with despotic aspirations.

This idiot is likely a Russian agent.
Call it a 'banana republic'. Call it a 'shithole'. 
Call it whatever you like.

The US has abdicated it's position as a 'world leader'. 

It's pathetic. 
Hopefully it will change. 

You just convinced me..... No the US will come out of this stronger than ever. A shithole country has leader after leader like trump, like Putin, like Xi. Its dark now, thousands dying every day, institutions and the law thrown out the door.

But a democracy with a free press can strengthen the institutions with poor foundations. Learn from its mistakes. Rebuild better.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

2 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You just convinced me..... No the US will come out of this stronger than ever. A shithole country has leader after leader like trump, like Putin, like Xi. Its dark now, thousands dying every day, institutions and the law thrown out the door.

But a democracy with a free press can strengthen the institutions with poor foundations. Learn from its mistakes. Rebuild better.

I hope so. I honestly do.

But the problem isn't just Trump.

It's also (and perhaps even to a larger degree) how the GOP establishment has enabled him.

The Senate basically refused to hold a trial, despite the impeachment.

They refuse to hold him accountable for his destruction of the oversight.

The "checks and balances" built into the Constitution have failed, because of collusion between the Senate & White House. It's abundantly clear that McConnel and Trump have agreed to let each other do whatever they want, as long as it goes both ways (Trump doesn't stop McC from filling the judiciary, McC doesn't stop Trump from doing any fucking thing he wants to). 

I hope the problem gets fixed in November. But I'm not convinced it will happen.
And if it doesn't happen in November, the chances of the republic as we know it surviving the next 4 years is not really good.

[Phil1111 908]

23 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I hope so. I honestly do.

But the problem isn't just Trump.

It's also (and perhaps even to a larger degree) how the GOP establishment has enabled him.

The Senate basically refused to hold a trial, despite the impeachment.

They refuse to hold him accountable for his destruction of the oversight.

The "checks and balances" built into the Constitution have failed, because of collusion between the Senate & White House. It's abundantly clear that McConnel and Trump have agreed to let each other do whatever they want, as long as it goes both ways (Trump doesn't stop McC from filling the judiciary, McC doesn't stop Trump from doing any fucking thing he wants to). 

I hope the problem gets fixed in November. But I'm not convinced it will happen.
And if it doesn't happen in November, the chances of the republic as we know it surviving the next 4 years is not really good.

New polls show tight races for Graham, McConnell. States that have historically been as safe as Fort Knox.

IMO Clinton should have been impeached for what he did. The GOP will stab trump so hard with a election loss that it sill surprise you. Currently trump is at a loss to decide the direction of his campaign. The GOP doesn't provide input Jared and his close band of apparatchiks do. They just pulled their ad buys because they were missing the mark.

Guns, personal safety of soccer moms in the suburbs, the rule of law, etc. Are all non-issues and trump is lost. Eventually the GOP will rebuild and even trump's taint will fade.

From NYT editorial today "Jonathan V. Last thinks President Trump is here forever. Last, an editor at The Bulwark, a conservative site that’s been hostile to Trump, argues that if Trump loses in November he’ll claim he was cheated out of the election. He’ll force other Republicans to back up his claim. He’ll get a TV show, hold rallies, be coy about running again in 2024.

He’ll still be the center of everything Republican. Ambitious Republicans will have to lash themselves to the husk of the dying czar if they want to have any future in the party. The whole party will go Trump-crazed and brain-dead for another four years.

I salute Last for coming up with a post-2020 scenario even more pessimistic than my own!

My guess is that if Trump gets crushed in the election, millions of Republicans will decide they never liked that loser and jerk anyway. He’ll get relegated to whatever bargain basement they are using to hold Sarah Palin. But something will remain: Trumpism."

I actually agree with it almost without exception. If anyone is not a NYT subscriber its well worth the effort to read the entire editorial by getting around the paywall.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Phil1111

[SkyDekker 1,121]

18 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Hey thanks for that. It leaves Canadian liberals more money for social spending.

Most Canadians understand the aluminum tariffs. There will be arbitral panels to decide in Canada's favor like they do in all the lumber disputes. The tariffs get paid back to those that had to pay them. US politicians get their votes and by the time the US buyer and Canadian producer gets their money back everyone has forgotten what it was all about.

Actually. Those panels are non existent right now because the US refuses to participate in selecting members. 

[SkyDekker 1,121]

18 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Canadian Oil interests are not against pipelines running across US lands. But this is all a digression. What chapped my ass was Skydekker calling the US a shit hole country. We are not. We currently suck, that's a fact. That said, I respectfully submit that some Canadians might show a tad more restraint given the curve of history.

Ah yes, the “or else” response. I already outlined how that is kind of shit holey. 
 

You know what would happen in a shit hole country too? The postal service would be delayed for political purposes. Even though 330,000 veterans depend on receiving medications through the mail daily. 
 

Wonder if that is happening in the US. 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Ah yes, the “or else” response. I already outlined how that is kind of shit holey. 
 

You know what would happen in a shit hole country too? The postal service would be delayed for political purposes. Even though 330,000 veterans depend on receiving medications through the mail daily. 
 

Wonder if that is happening in the US. 

There was no "or else" there shit holey or not. Hey, I have an idea, instead of picking away at everyone everyone else's scabs whenever you're bored why not start some of your own threads?

[turtlespeed 212]

On 8/6/2020 at 11:24 PM, murps2000 said:

What does this scenario make you think about? Why would it ever be recommended by anyone that someone mail in a winning lottery ticket? If it's a large prize you may contact the appropriate entities to make a claim by mail, but then you could arrange a meeting to present the lottery ticket in person. You have months to do it. Why would anyone ever recommend just dropping a winning lottery ticket into the mail?

It goes along with how important you think your vote is worth.

Some here would argue that getting Trump out of office is a life or death scenario. (See Trump Death Clock)

That seems like it would have to be damn important, unless, of course, that the deaths those that are calling attention to are really just meaningless.  I've even been berated in this thread by not caring more about money than my loved ones.  So all those deaths MUST matter, right?

So, voting Trump out is important, and it's not, evidently.

How did the mail in voting work out in New York recently?

I noticed that the stats haven't been mentioned here yet.

 

[wmw999 2,116]

I spent three years mailing my paycheck to my bank every week in the late 70's and early 80's. Worked just fine. I'd say a paycheck is of pretty high importance, too, at least in the short run.

No, the New York stats haven't been mentioned. Both it and Georgia were disasters. The answer is deal with it, not fuckitI'mdone

Wendy P.

[murps2000 86]

28 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It goes along with how important you think your vote is worth.

Some here would argue that getting Trump out of office is a life or death scenario. (See Trump Death Clock)

That seems like it would have to be damn important, unless, of course, that the deaths those that are calling attention to are really just meaningless.  I've even been berated in this thread by not caring more about money than my loved ones.  So all those deaths MUST matter, right?

So, voting Trump out is important, and it's not, evidently.

How did the mail in voting work out in New York recently?

I noticed that the stats haven't been mentioned here yet.

 

No it doesn't. Comparing mail in ballots to mailing in a lottery ticket is meaningless. The situations are completely different. Everyone in the country isn't trying to collect lottery winnings on the same day. Everyone does have to vote in person on the same day, however. Even if everyone did win the lottery on the same day, each person would have a six month window to collect their winnings. It's an absurd analogy that proves no point.

[Coreece 189]

3 hours ago, murps2000 said:

Even if everyone did win the lottery on the same day, each person would have a six month window to collect their winnings.

Which after the state's and the school's take their share, would effectively amount to nothing.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Coreece
I did a phil and used a period instead of a comma

[turtlespeed 212]

4 hours ago, murps2000 said:

No it doesn't. Comparing mail in ballots to mailing in a lottery ticket is meaningless. The situations are completely different. Everyone in the country isn't trying to collect lottery winnings on the same day. Everyone does have to vote in person on the same day, however. Even if everyone did win the lottery on the same day, each person would have a six month window to collect their winnings. It's an absurd analogy that proves no point.

The correlation is with the importance.  It is also with the reliability of the mail in ballots.

I ask again - how did the mail in ballots do in New York just recently?

New York is mostly run by, and led by, democrat capability, is it not?

Edited August 8, 2020 by turtlespeed

[SkyDekker 1,121]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

The correlation is with the importance.  It is also with the reliability of the mail in ballots.

I ask again - how did the mail in ballots do in New York just recently?

You would think that the failure in New York would have led to trying to improve the system. You would think the federal Government would do anything to ensure the States have the resources available to improve their systems in light of COVID.

In stead you get this....

Add to that the US Post Master purposely slowing down the mail service.

For a democracy you guys certainly try and make it as difficult as possible to actually vote.

[gowlerk 1,903]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

For a democracy you guys certainly try and make it as difficult as possible to actually vote.

Each state is different. Many states have a long history of suppressing voting among minorities. They are still at it, SCOTUS has made their work easier. It looks a little banana republicish to me.

[turtlespeed 212]

2 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

You would think that the failure in New York would have led to trying to improve the system. You would think the federal Government would do anything to ensure the States have the resources available to improve their systems in light of COVID.

In stead you get this....

Add to that the US Post Master purposely slowing down the mail service.

For a democracy you guys certainly try and make it as difficult as possible to actually vote.

You would think the government in that area would have leadership in place to accomplish that, wouldn't you?

Who leads there?

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

Each state is different. Many states have a long history of suppressing voting among minorities. They are still at it, SCOTUS has made their work easier. It looks a little banana republicish to me.

I'm sure it does - 

Just stay on your side of the border then.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

You would think the government in that area would have leadership in place to accomplish that, wouldn't you?

Who leads there?

Sure you can point all over the place. Not being able to run elections is a decent indication of a Banana Republic or a shit hole.

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

Sure you can point all over the place. Not being able to run elections is a decent indication of a Banana Republic or a shit hole.

Seems to work just fine on one side of the fence, doesn't it?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

I'm sure it does - 

Just stay on your side of the border then.

For me: gladly. The issue is keeping Americans out of Canada.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

Seems to work just fine on one side of the fence, doesn't it?

The barriers to voting do indeed seem to follow a fence.

[turtlespeed 212]

8 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

For me: gladly. The issue is keeping Americans out of Canada.

Its not an issue for me.

[turtlespeed 212]

8 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

The barriers to voting do indeed seem to follow a fence.

Maybe if you look hard enough and really . . . REALLY . . . want to see a barrier.

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

That seems like it would have to be damn important, unless, of course, that the deaths those that are calling attention to are really just meaningless.  I've even been berated in this thread by not caring more about money than my loved ones.  So all those deaths MUST matter, right?

But surely you are arguing that those deaths don't matter?

 

If you have a winning lottery ticket, the chances are that you will be the only person queueing up to hand it in. If you go to vote, chances are you'll be queueing up with a lot of other people waiting to vote. If Covid deaths are important and if social distancing is important then mail in ballots are more important than mail in lottery tickets

[SkyDekker 1,121]

13 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Maybe if you look hard enough and really . . . REALLY . . . want to see a barrier.

The disenfranchisement of certain groups of voters isn't really hidden. You would have to be pretty blind not to see it. I mean you have heard of gerrymandering right?

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

6 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I spent three years mailing my paycheck to my bank every week in the late 70's and early 80's. Worked just fine. I'd say a paycheck is of pretty high importance, too, at least in the short run.

Hi Wendy,

Every month I mail in the checks for any bills that I have.  I do not pay any of them in person.  I've been doing this since the 60's with never a problem that I can recall.

Anyone, anyone, who thinks that vote-by-mail does not work should come & discuss with our Sec of State ( who is in charge of our elections ), as 60 Minutes did earlier this year.  She is a Republican and she said that she did not know of one Oregonian who did not like our vote-by-mail system.

Jerry Baumchen