fcajump 153 #26 June 1, 2006 QuoteI don't see anything wrong with telling people at 5'9" 240 (or anyone over the 200/220 whatever threshold the DZ uses) that they'll need to be evaluated individually before they can manifest. (and that would mean no non refundable deposits) You can argue that you were more fit than your wife at 165, but 1) probably not true, and 2) with relation to the harness, she was probably a better fit. And I agree with you. More over I believe it is the job of the TI to do that evaluation on every prospective student (physical shape, condition, mental faculties, etc...)... more so on those of us outside of the "normal" range. As to my relative fitness, 1) no. and 2) not really. We've both jumped (her 8 jumps at 125-lbs and fit) and my 1100 jumps ranging from 220 to 240. (sure would like to see that 220 or less again.. ;-) My point is that the BMI puts both of us on the same scale (as we are both the same height) and yet there is no differentiation for the additional 6" of shoulder width or bone structure. In my experience, it is a poor indicator of fitness. Just my $.02 and others will disagree. Still do think we need to develope guidelines that let in the folks that can participate safely and discourage those outside the safe range... JimAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 June 1, 2006 Quote My point is that the BMI puts both of us on the same scale (as we are both the same height) and yet there is no differentiation for the additional 6" of shoulder width or bone structure. In my experience, it is a poor indicator of fitness. But that's not really its goal. It's intended to replace the height weight chart in an easy metric. The failings is in using that 25.0 threshold on active people. But above 30, you can tell very quickly visually if it's bad or good. The answer I tried to get out of a couple physicians and failed was is body fat all that matters, or is it still disadvantageous to walk around with an extra 30-40 lbs of muscle mass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #28 June 1, 2006 But if the BMI restriction was 38 or something, both you and your wife would obviously be under 38. I really don't think you can argue that anyone with a BMI over 38 (except for crazy-serious world class body-builders) should be making a tandem skydive. They won't fit the harness and they're more likely to suffer minor injuries on landing. To have a BMI of 38 someone who is 6'0" would need to weight 280 pounds. Someone who is 5'5" would weigh 230 pounds. Perhaps the BMI could be a screening tool, which if a person failed could be left up to the discretion of the tandem master. Atleast if there was some DZ wide policy like this it would take away some responsibility and pressure off the TI. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aironscott 3 #29 June 1, 2006 -Atleast if there was some DZ wide policy like this it would take away some responsibility and pressure off the TI. - This is the best reason to have some policy in place. Whatever it is. BMI, height/weight, height/waist, whatever. One of the least pleasent things that a TI has to do is tell someone that they do not fit the physical profile necessary to jump. Sometimes they accept it willingly and other times they cry discrimination against fat people (or old people, or stupid people, etc). We have other such policies in place. No drunks, no druggies, no physical infirmaties. Why not a no BMI of 30 something+? I'm with you Karen, if it would make it easier to tell someone that they can't make a tandem then each dropzone should instute a police that works for them on that subject. Personally I'll still make the call on a student by student basis, but I want the DZ to say no first. Then I don't have to look like the bad guy. Aaron P.S. Hope all is well with you. Its been a while.“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #30 June 1, 2006 QuoteQuote My point is that the BMI puts both of us on the same scale (as we are both the same height) and yet there is no differentiation for the additional 6" of shoulder width or bone structure. In my experience, it is a poor indicator of fitness. But that's not really its goal. It's intended to replace the height weight chart in an easy metric. The failings is in using that 25.0 threshold on active people. But above 30, you can tell very quickly visually if it's bad or good. The answer I tried to get out of a couple physicians and failed was is body fat all that matters, or is it still disadvantageous to walk around with an extra 30-40 lbs of muscle mass. And while I have basis on which to say whether 30-40 extra pounds of muscle is good or bad for overall health, it makes a tremendous difference to me as the TI whether that prospective tandem student has 30-40 lbs of extra muscle or extra fat... JAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #31 June 1, 2006 (not a direct reply to anyone) ? how is this not STUPID simple... if the harnes don't fit you WILL fall to your death, so YOU CANNOT JUMP sorry, this is for fun not assisted suicide! Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schoenauer 0 #32 June 1, 2006 QuoteI'm not a big fan of the BMI. A lot of skydivers would flunk it, myself included and just about every body builder on the planet. A simple statement on the website that, "Height and weight must be proportionate." Yes, and in addition there should also be a maximum student weight limit. As for when the Pear shaped student walks into the school who is under the weight limit the school needs to take action before money changes hands. The first thing is see if the harness will fit with all the straps in the right place. Then once the harness is fitted discuss the student’s comfort while under canopy. Don’t sugar coat anything be honest and tell them its going to hurt and where plus don’t skip their strength requirements for landings. If the harness does not fit the simply say “I am sorry but we do not have a harness that will properly fit you, so we can not take you on a skydive.”Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #33 June 1, 2006 QuoteYes, and in addition there should also be a maximum student weight limit. MOst places say max weight is 225lbs.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #34 June 1, 2006 QuoteQuoteYes, and in addition there should also be a maximum student weight limit. MOst places say max weight is 225lbs. That was the easy thing for me as TI... I weighed more than 1/2 of the suspended max on my SET400, so they could not out weigh me. Unfortunately that did not rule out all those who were not in shape for this sport. JimAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
