This is how you use kids as a political weapon.

[turtlespeed 212]

There is nothing quite like using children, their education, and the availability of care to hold the public hostage.

Why would a moratorium on private and charter schools be a demand or a requirement to reopen?

What would that have to do, in any way with Covid?

https://www.kusi.com/a-los-angeles-teachers-union-says-public-schools-should-not-reopen-unless-their-demands-are-met/

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by turtlespeed

[Phil1111 910]

59 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

There is nothing quite like using children, their education, and the availability of care to hold the public hostage.

Why would a moratorium on private and charter schools be a demand or a requirement to reopen?

What would that have to do, in any way with Covid?

https://www.kusi.com/a-los-angeles-teachers-union-says-public-schools-should-not-reopen-unless-their-demands-are-met/

 

As compared to the GOP and trump. They must reopen otherwise funding will be cut. The CDC guidelines will be written by trump officials because the science based CDC ones are too onerous.

You're a funny "centrist" do you have a mirror in your house?

[turtlespeed 212]

8 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

As compared to the GOP and trump. They must reopen otherwise funding will be cut. The CDC guidelines will be written by trump officials because the science based CDC ones are too onerous.

You're a funny "centrist" do you have a mirror in your house?

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

The teachers union is trying to kill its competition by using the Covid shutdown to demand that their competition be halted before they "reopen."

It seems to me that the fear they have is that charter schools will open and employ teachers while they are still standing up for their demands.  Obviously a loss of power. 

It seems obvious they will delay the education of the children to get their demands.

This isn't about Trump - its about the teacher's unions using the education of children as a weapon.  They are also using the inability or unavailability of child care for working parents as ammunition.

 

[kallend 1,623]

[Coreece 190]

34 minutes ago, kallend said:

Now the fliside to that:

It's just bluefish!

[turtlespeed 212]

2 hours ago, Coreece said:

Now the fliside to that:

It's just bluefish!

To be fair, though, the shark was real, in the movie.

 

[Coreece 190]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

Now the fliside to that:

It's just bluefish!

To be fair, though, the shark was real, in the movie.

Right, just not everywhere you look - tho this is probably more applicable to some AGW alarmists out there rather than covid.

More Crime - Global warming!

More Terrorism - Global warming!

Migrant Caravan - Global warming!

What's next, globally synchronized menstrual cycles? 

 

Acting like that doesn't really help the cause, but I have to admit, given how many people are acting as if covid is a hoax or whatever, I can understand why some people feel the need to do it.

 

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

To be fair, though, the shark was real, in the movie.

 

Cartoon sharks aren't real?  Oh the humanity!

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

Cartoon sharks aren't real?  Oh the humanity!

Are you just so dead set on trying to argue with what I say that you skip over the fact that I was comparing the shark, (being real at least in the movie) to the real corona virus (In real life)?

I swear I could, at this point, say that Biden was a wonderful man, and you would argue with that too.

[kallend 1,623]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Are you just so dead set on trying to argue with what I say that you skip over the fact that I was comparing the shark, (being real at least in the movie) to the real corona virus (In real life)?

I swear I could, at this point, say that Biden was a wonderful man, and you would argue with that too.

Get a life.

[turtlespeed 212]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:58 PM, kallend said:

Get a life.

I see I am correct.

[kallend 1,623]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

I see I am correct.

<yawn>

[billvon 2,396]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:24 AM, Coreece said:

Right, just not everywhere you look - tho this is probably more applicable to some AGW alarmists out there rather than covid.

More Crime - Global warming!

More Terrorism - Global warming!

Migrant Caravan - Global warming!

That's a good point.  Although that doesn't really happen, many right wingers are doing the same thing with COVID that they do with climate change.

"Liberals think everything is caused by climate change, which is a big hoax.  There's no warming!  If there is, we didn't do it.  And if we did, it's too late to change anything!"

"Liberals are all panicked and scared by COVID.  It's all a hoax!  There's no huge increase in infections.  It's like the flu!  And if it's worse than the flu, well, masks don't work.  Distancing doesn't work.  The numbers are fake!  We should just let it run its course and all somehow get herd immunity!"

Some interesting similarities that point to some fundamental ideological issues right wingers have with science.

 

[turtlespeed 212]

9 minutes ago, billvon said:

That's a good point.  Although that doesn't really happen, many right wingers are doing the same thing with COVID that they do with climate change.

"Liberals think everything is caused by climate change, which is a big hoax.  There's no warming!  If there is, we didn't do it.  And if we did, it's too late to change anything!"

"Liberals are all panicked and scared by COVID.  It's all a hoax!  There's no huge increase in infections.  It's like the flu!  And if it's worse than the flu, well, masks don't work.  Distancing doesn't work.  The numbers are fake!  We should just let it run its course and all somehow get herd immunity!"

Some interesting similarities that point to some fundamental ideological issues right wingers have with science.

 

When liberals scream "The sky is falling!" wrt climate change - and it doesn't happen . . . it kinda hurts the climate change case.

When the method is to over react and give much exxagerated information in hopes that a small percentage may stick - the credibility is lost.

For example:

(I haven't researched to find out the level of truthiness in all these)

1. Harvard biologist George Wald estimated that “civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”

2. “We are in an environmental crisis which threatens the survival of this nation, and of the world as a suitable place of human habitation,” wrote Washington University biologist Barry Commoner in the Earth Day issue of the scholarly journal Environment.

3. The day after the first Earth Day, the New York Times editorial page warned, “Man must stop pollution and conserve his resources, not merely to enhance existence but to save the race from intolerable deterioration and possible extinction.”

4. “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich confidently declared in the April 1970 issue of Mademoiselle. “The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”

5. “Most of the people who are going to die in the greatest cataclysm in the history of man have already been born,” wrote Paul Ehrlich in a 1969 essay titled “Eco-Catastrophe! “By…[1975] some experts feel that food shortages will have escalated the present level of world hunger and starvation into famines of unbelievable proportions. Other experts, more optimistic, think the ultimate food-population collision will not occur until the decade of the 1980s.”

6. Ehrlich sketched out his most alarmist scenario for the 1970 Earth Day issue of The Progressive, assuring readers that between 1980 and 1989, some 4 billion people, including 65 million Americans, would perish in the “Great Die-Off.”

7. “It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” declared Denis Hayes, the chief organizer for Earth Day, in the Spring 1970 issue of The Living Wilderness.

8. Peter Gunter, a North Texas State University professor, wrote in 1970, “Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”

9. In January 1970, Life reported, “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”

10. Ecologist Kenneth Watt told Time that, “At the present rate of nitrogen buildup, it’s only a matter of time before light will be filtered out of the atmosphere and none of our land will be usable.”

11. Barry Commoner predicted that decaying organic pollutants would use up all of the oxygen in America’s rivers, causing freshwater fish to suffocate.

12. Paul Ehrlich chimed in, predicting in 1970 that “air pollution…is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone.” Ehrlich sketched a scenario in which 200,000 Americans would die in 1973 during “smog disasters” in New York and Los Angeles.

13. Paul Ehrlich warned in the May 1970 issue of Audubon that DDT and other chlorinated hydrocarbons “may have substantially reduced the life expectancy of people born since 1945.” Ehrlich warned that Americans born since 1946…now had a life expectancy of only 49 years, and he predicted that if current patterns continued this expectancy would reach 42 years by 1980, when it might level out. (Note: According to the most recent CDC report, life expectancy in the US is 78.8 years).

14. Ecologist Kenneth Watt declared, “By the year 2000, if present trends continue, we will be using up crude oil at such a rate…that there won’t be any more crude oil. You’ll drive up to the pump and say, `Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, `I am very sorry, there isn’t any.'”

15. Harrison Brown, a scientist at the National Academy of Sciences, published a chart in Scientific American that looked at metal reserves and estimated the humanity would totally run out of copper shortly after 2000. Lead, zinc, tin, gold, and silver would be gone before 1990.

16. Sen. Gaylord Nelson wrote in Look that, “Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”

17. In 1975, Paul Ehrlich predicted that “since more than nine-tenths of the original tropical rainforests will be removed in most areas within the next 30 years or so, it is expected that half of the organisms in these areas will vanish with it.”

18. Kenneth Watt warned about a pending Ice Age in a speech. “The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years,” he declared. “If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”

[billvon 2,396]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

When liberals scream "The sky is falling!" wrt climate change - and it doesn't happen . . . it kinda hurts the climate change case.

And when conservatives murder protesters, any credibility they have when they condemn BLM for looting goes right out the window.

I'll bet you are about to post "but he doesn't represent all conservatives!"  Exactly.

Quote

I haven't researched to find out the level of truthiness in all these

That's pretty much your MO.

[turtlespeed 212]

9 minutes ago, billvon said:

And when conservatives murder protesters, any credibility they have when they condemn BLM for looting goes right out the window.

I'll bet you are about to post "but he doesn't represent all conservatives!"  Exactly.

That's pretty much your MO.

Uh huh.<eyeroll>

[DJL 232]

On 7/18/2020 at 8:56 AM, turtlespeed said:

It seems obvious they will delay the education of the children to get their demands.

This line of bullshit is what's used every time teachers ask for more resources or pay, that they're the ones hurting the children.

[normiss 622]

45 minutes ago, DJL said:

This line of bullshit is what's used every time teachers ask for more resources or pay, that they're the ones hurting the children.

If I can study for the higher Cisco certifications on-line, why can't school children do the same?

No way in hell would I send my kids to school in the current situation. I've also seen the virtual schools from the teacher and a kids perspective. I was rather impressed.

But those forcibly demanding American society and the economy return to something resembling normal, they are playing with their fear dog whistles as expected. Rather invested for a Chinese/Democratic hoax IMO.

[billvon 2,396]

1 hour ago, normiss said:

If I can study for the higher Cisco certifications on-line, why can't school children do the same?

Because most kids need to learn social skills, study discipline and how to interact with authority figures like teachers.  Adults don't.  (Well, most don't.)

Because, in some cases, kids need schools to have a safe environment to be in six hours a day, and a place where they can get decent food.  Again, adults don't need that.

I agree that kids should not be going to school in infection hotspots.  But there are good reasons to reopen schools in areas where the virus is not flaring up; it's definitely a tradeoff and not at all a simple decision.

[normiss 622]

46 minutes ago, billvon said:

Because most kids need to learn social skills, study discipline and how to interact with authority figures like teachers.  Adults don't.  (Well, most don't.)

Because, in some cases, kids need schools to have a safe environment to be in six hours a day, and a place where they can get decent food.  Again, adults don't need that.

I agree that kids should not be going to school in infection hotspots.  But there are good reasons to reopen schools in areas where the virus is not flaring up; it's definitely a tradeoff and not at all a simple decision.

Excellent points.

I'm in Florida, no way in hell.

They can wait, for now.

[piisfish 135]

On 7/18/2020 at 7:24 PM, Coreece said:

Right, just not everywhere you look - tho this is probably more applicable to some AGW alarmists out there rather than covid.

More Crime - Global warming!

More Terrorism - Global warming!

Migrant Caravan - Global warming!

What's next, globally synchronized menstrual cycles? 

 

Acting like that doesn't really help the cause, but I have to admit, given how many people are acting as if covid is a hoax or whatever, I can understand why some people feel the need to do it.

 

If you had any interest in the subject, you would know that COVID is NOT related to global warming. It is spread via 5G antennas :-)

[BIGUN 1,053]

3 hours ago, normiss said:

If I can study for the higher Cisco certifications on-line, why can't school children do the same?

No way in hell would I send my kids to school in the current situation. I've also seen the virtual schools from the teacher and a kids perspective. I was rather impressed.

They closed our schools in March right before Spring break.During Spring break,; the teachers and school system busted their asses and developed on on-line program to finish out the school year. They had three hours of coursework and after "classes" they had an hour and a half of socialization via zoom. The homeroom teachers developed activities like cooking chocolate chip cookies, science projects,etc. It was chaos, but they had fun while they learned.

Last week, we received an email about school opening. Our choices were, 1) full schedule in class on the campus, 2) blended online & classroom (No buses), or 3) full online class. They need to know which track we'll take by the 31st, so they can effectively distribute resources. Again, the schools did a phenomenal job not only getting ready for this, but communicating with the parents through the entire process.

w/r/t Certifications. The little one is in advanced math (meaning algebra and geometry almost fully completed in the 6th grade). Those with the aptitude can start technology certifications in the 7th grade. Mine started programming in the 5th grade (coding with Google) Here; they can start college at 16 while still in high school as long as they have an B or higher and it's free tuition. They'll finish their associates degree when they graduate high school, start college, and finish  Bachelor's by 20. For others, there is a "technical track" where they can attend the Technical College at 16 for things like A&P Mechanic, Avionics, Robotics, Manufacturing, etc.      

[turtlespeed 212]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

They closed our schools in March right before Spring break.During Spring break,; the teachers and school system busted their asses and developed on on-line program to finish out the school year. They had three hours of coursework and after "classes" they had an hour and a half of socialization via zoom. The homeroom teachers developed activities like cooking chocolate chip cookies, science projects,etc. It was chaos, but they had fun while they learned.

Last week, we received an email about school opening. Our choices were, 1) full schedule in class on the campus, 2) blended online & classroom (No buses), or 3) full online class. They need to know which track we'll take by the 31st, so they can effectively distribute resources. Again, the schools did a phenomenal job not only getting ready for this, but communicating with the parents through the entire process.

w/r/t Certifications. The little one is in advanced math (meaning algebra and geometry almost fully completed in the 6th grade). Those with the aptitude can start technology certifications in the 7th grade. Mine started programming in the 5th grade (coding with Google) Here; they can start college at 16 while still in high school as long as they have an B or higher and it's free tuition. They'll finish their associates degree when they graduate high school, start college, and finish  Bachelor's by 20. For others, there is a "technical track" where they can attend the Technical College at 16 for things like A&P Mechanic, Avionics, Robotics, Manufacturing, etc.      

Is that Public, Private, or Charter?

[turtlespeed 212]

6 hours ago, DJL said:

This line of bullshit is what's used every time teachers ask for more resources or pay, that they're the ones hurting the children.

First of all, I am FOR higher paid teachers and resources.

I am willing to take another hit on my property taxes to help pay my part of that.

Second - I am also a fan of vouchers, and the ability to choose where your child attends school.  Private and Charter should add competition to the mix.

Edited July 21, 2020 by turtlespeed

[BIGUN 1,053]

4 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Is that Public, Private, or Charter?

Public