Couple recorded pulling weapons on protesters outside their St. Louis home

[turtlespeed 212]

On 7/15/2020 at 9:12 AM, JoeWeber said:

Some posters here need to get out of America for some serious travel and experience again what America used to be like: no jerks with open carry Glocks on their hips and no sense of foreboding when a cop pulls up behind you. 

Who has a sense of foreboding when cops pull up behind them?

I certainly don't.

[wmw999 2,121]

14 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Who has a sense of foreboding when cops pull up behind them?

I certainly don't.

Any African American. Especially male. 
Wendy P. 

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, wmw999 said:

Any African American. Especially male. 
Wendy P. 

I was speaking to those here - I fixed it - thanks for pointing that out.

I do disagree with the all inclusiveness of it.  

The guys (African American) here I have asked, say it pretty much depends on where you are, and when it happens.  The general consensus here is that if you stay out of the bad neighborhoods where the bad things are done, its not an issue. 

Psshwa.  What do they know - they live n Charleston, SC.  

[billvon 2,396]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

The guys (African American) here I have asked, say it pretty much depends on where you are, and when it happens.  The general consensus here is that if you stay out of the bad neighborhoods where the bad things are done, its not an issue. 

 

Many times that's true.  And in many areas, blacks are forced to live in those bad neighborhoods because of redlining, discriminatory lending practices and people like Trump.

[sfzombie13 307]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

I was speaking to those here - I fixed it - thanks for pointing that out.

I do disagree with the all inclusiveness of it.  

The guys (African American) here I have asked, say it pretty much depends on where you are, and when it happens.  The general consensus here is that if you stay out of the bad neighborhoods where the bad things are done, its not an issue. 

Psshwa.  What do they know - they live n Charleston, SC.  

tell ya what, ask them about the back woods in sc, or nc?  i know that they certainly would if pulled over almost anywhere in wv, i have asked some friends to confirm.  hell, most of the time i have a foreboding when being pulled over, but lately i have determined that i am invisible to the cops due to being on some sort of list or surveillance.

[mistercwood 287]

6 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

I was speaking to those here - I fixed it - thanks for pointing that out.

I do disagree with the all inclusiveness of it.  

The guys (African American) here I have asked, say it pretty much depends on where you are, and when it happens.  The general consensus here is that if you stay out of the bad neighborhoods where the bad things are done, its not an issue. 

Psshwa.  What do they know - they live n Charleston, SC.  

My (obviously anecdotal) perspective: I have parents of different nationalities, so subsequently have family (and friends) spread all across Australia and the USA.

Out of all the parents among them, the only one who has had to have The Talk with their kid about how to act around cops so you don't get dead is my cousin in Boston with a mixed race son.

He's also the only one I'm aware of who had a complete stranger go off at him in a store for the colour of his skin. He's 9.

[jakee 1,254]

7 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

The guys (African American) here I have asked, say it pretty much depends on where you are, and when it happens.  The general consensus here is that if you stay out of the bad neighborhoods where the bad things are done, its not an issue. 

This article links and summarises a lot of studies about racial disparities in law enforcement. One interesting one related to the above was this - A 2019 survey of traffic tickets in Indianapolis and its suburbs found that in the city, black drivers received 1.5 tickets for every white driver. In the suburban town of Fishers, the disparity grew to 4.5 tickets, and in the wealthy suburb of Carmel, black motorists received 18 tickets for every ticket issued to a white motorist.

 

There were also running themes from studies of several different major PDs. Black motorists are stopped at a much higher rate than white motorists, but with less difference at night. Black motorists are also much more likely to be searched during a stop (by 2 or 3x), but when searches are executed the hit rate on contraband is slightly higher on white drivers.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

On 7/15/2020 at 7:00 AM, RonD1120 said:

Her pistol did not work.

https://www.oann.com/congress-members-defend-st-louis-gun-couple-in-letter-to-ag-barr/

Some might argue this is an example of piss poor muzzle discipline while others might see a good plan. Maybe next time. For sure, if you are going to shoot someone with a pistol too small to see you should do it while scratching your ass.

[gowlerk 1,910]

35 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Some might argue this is an example of piss poor muzzle discipline while others might see a good plan. Maybe next time. For sure, if you are going to shoot someone with a pistol too small to see you should do it while scratching your ass.

They are likely going to end up in the stupid fire arm accident thread!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

I really hate to defend idiots like this, but if you look carefully, it appears that he's behind her, not directly next to her.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

2 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I really hate to defend idiots like this, but if you look carefully, it appears that he's behind her, not directly next to her.

So the way it's taught is never point a gun in the direction of someone you do not intend to shoot. To my eye he's set-up nicely to put one through her tits. If you prefer to think letting one loose just behind her without looking is better somehow, that's fine. Either way he just failed Good Guy with a Gun 101.

[jakee 1,254]

8 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I really hate to defend idiots like this, but if you look carefully, it appears that he's behind her, not directly next to her.

Maybe in that one still, but remember it's a still taken from a video which shows them both moving about on the porch. Sometime's he's in front, sometimes she is, and inbetween there are at the very least transient moments where he is pointing the gun directly at her. 

Also, bizarrely, one point at which he appears to be attempting to untangle his own arm from the rifle sling while the muzze is pointing towards the crowd. Good stuff.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

48 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

So the way it's taught is never point a gun in the direction of someone you do not intend to shoot. To my eye he's set-up nicely to put one through her tits. If you prefer to think letting one loose just behind her without looking is better somehow, that's fine. Either way he just failed Good Guy with a Gun 101.

Yes. I know the 'basic rules' as "TABK" with "A" being Always point the gun in a safe direction. He's actually following the 'K' (keep your finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot).
But, as I noted, it looks to me like he's a couple of feet behind her. Not directly next to her. The pic makes it tough to tell, and I could certainly be wrong.

And neither of them qualifies for anything remotely resembling 'good guy with a gun'. 
Entitled, racist, selfish, dangerous, criminal and a bunch of other things.

42 minutes ago, jakee said:

Maybe in that one still, but remember it's a still taken from a video which shows them both moving about on the porch. Sometime's he's in front, sometimes she is, and in between there are at the very least transient moments where he is pointing the gun directly at her. 

Also, bizarrely, one point at which he appears to be attempting to untangle his own arm from the rifle sling while the muzzle is pointing towards the crowd. Good stuff.

Absolutely. Both of them repeatedly pointed their guns at people in the crowd. I'm not sure if he was pointing deliberately at specific people, but she certainly was at various times. And their 'muzzle discipline' was atrocious. That sort of behavior, what's called 'sweeping the person with the muzzle' will get you ejected from any range that takes safety seriously. 

And, in the beginning, I said that they would likely get away with it because they are rich & white.

Apparently Trump feels that way too.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/15/trump-st-louis-mccloskeys/

 

Gotta love how people are sending messages to the black prosecutor wishing to 'see you hanging from a tree'.

[turtlespeed 212]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

Maybe in that one still, but remember it's a still taken from a video which shows them both moving about on the porch. Sometime's he's in front, sometimes she is, and inbetween there are at the very least transient moments where he is pointing the gun directly at her. 

Also, bizarrely, one point at which he appears to be attempting to untangle his own arm from the rifle sling while the muzze is pointing towards the crowd. Good stuff.

Yeah - That barrel's line of fire crossed her torso many times.

He wasn't very stationary.  My guess is that he was pumped full of adrenaline.

Also he changed position from in front to parallel to behind and then back to about parallel . . . so . . . He has no defense for failing gun safety 101.

Edited July 17, 2020 by turtlespeed

[RonD1120 58]

All this analyzation and no one has realized they were out front with a show of force because thugs broke into their gated community and were marching down their street. Elsewhere, in Atlanta these idiots were breaking into and burning private property. They did not know whether or not the same would happen to them.

These people were afraid and were demonstrating a deterrent to possible attack. 

[JoeWeber 2,299]

21 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

All this analyzation and no one has realized they were out front with a show of force because thugs broke into their gated community and were marching down their street. Elsewhere, in Atlanta these idiots were breaking into and burning private property. They did not know whether or not the same would happen to them.

These people were afraid and were demonstrating a deterrent to possible attack. 

Bullshit, and mixed up bullshit at that. Wendy observed that the protesters shouldn't have been there and I, and most others here, definitely agree. But to your point, if you were afraid and demonstrating a deterrent to an attack wouldn't it be smarter to be behind a wall with a shotgun out the window rather than standing on nicely mown grass in front of who knows how many enemies? So no, they weren't afraid. They were being AR-15 loving, gun nut assholes displaying rich, white privilege. They were escalating a situation and vastly increasing the chances that someone would get shot for what at that point was trespassing. Seriously, WTF is it with the idea that defending your home should also include chasing the motherfuckers down the driveway and firing rifled slugs through their rear window? You really need to get your head straight before you pull a gun on your UPS driver and drop him because your 75 year old nervous system can no longer tell how hard you are pulling on the trigger.

[Coreece 190]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Seriously, WTF is it with the idea that defending your home should also include chasing the motherfuckers down the driveway and firing rifled slugs through their rear window? You really need to get your head straight before you pull a gun on your UPS driver and drop him...

Hey Joe,  when you're doing your circle jerk thing, make sure you don't stretch it too far.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

5 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Hey Joe,  when you're doing your circle jerk thing, make sure you don't stretch it too far.

Hey Coreece, seriously, do you think at least one poster here isn't jonesing to cap some motherfucker they deem unreasonable? They've said so, right? You know, pull their weapon at a park, deal with unreasonable liberals and on and on. It's no circle jerk. This is how they fantasize. 

[Phil1111 910]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Hey Coreece, seriously, do you think at least one poster here isn't jonesing to cap some motherfucker they deem unreasonable? They've said so, right? You know, pull their weapon at a park, deal with unreasonable liberals and on and on. It's no circle jerk. This is how they fantasize. 

Hey Joe, what is this circle jerk that Coreece refers to every couple days. I know beef jerky. He seems to be quite concerned about it as he mentions it every couple days.

[Coreece 190]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

It's no circle jerk

maybe not, I just thought you'd appreciate the visual - you know, yanking it too hard and stretching it all out of proportion.

Anyway

7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Hey Coreece, seriously, do you think at least one poster here isn't jonesing to cap some motherfucker they deem unreasonable? They've said so, right? You know, pull their weapon at a park, deal with unreasonable liberals and on and on.

I think if something like that happened it would be in self defense and fully justifiable.

[Coreece 190]

7 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Hey Joe, what is this circle jerk that Coreece refers to every couple days.

I know, it crossed my mind that I might be over doing it a bit with that, but that one was too hard to let go. (pardon the puns)

Edited July 18, 2020 by Coreece

[Phil1111 910]

4 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Yes. I know the 'basic rules' as "TABK" with "A" being Always point the gun in a safe direction. He's actually following the 'K' (keep your finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot)....

Gotta love how people are sending messages to the black prosecutor wishing to 'see you hanging from a tree'.

Agree but trying to analyze muzzle control, etc. is over thinking it. They admitted the second day they went on their white victim gun toting road trip. That they armed themselves before they felt threatened.

Neither one has ever heard of the NRA gun safety program. They wanted to intimidate the crowd with their guns nothing more or less. They knew they were there to protest because the protest was made public the day before.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

2 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

All this analyzation and no one has realized they were out front with a show of force because thugs broke into their gated community and were marching down their street. Elsewhere, in Atlanta these idiots were breaking into and burning private property. They did not know whether or not the same would happen to them.

These people were afraid and were demonstrating a deterrent to possible attack. 

They didn't 'break into' the gated community.
The main gate was open. 

And how many of the other residents felt it necessary to use guns to confront those 'thugs'?

How many of those who didn't had there homes 'broken into and burned'?

[Phil1111 910]

13 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Hey Coreece, seriously, do you think at least one poster here isn't jonesing to cap some motherfucker they deem unreasonable? They've said so, right? You know, pull their weapon at a park, deal with unreasonable liberals and on and on. It's no circle jerk. This is how they fantasize. 

 

4 minutes ago, Coreece said:

...

I think if something like that happened it would be in self defense and fully justifiable.

I know lots of gun owners who state regularly that they are ready to use their weapons should any transgression against them take place. Combine some yelling, screaming, guns and ideas where the other side is opposite to every idea you hold dear. It can get outta hand fast.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

34 minutes ago, Coreece said:

maybe not, I just thought you'd appreciate the visual - you know, yanking it too hard and stretching it all out of proportion.

Anyway

I think if something like that happened it would be in self defense and fully justifiable.

In today's legal environment, probably. But that does not make it morally or ethically justifiable. How is it that the turn the other cheek society is also the pull your gun and shoot society?