The 2020 Election trump v. Biden

[jakee 1,254]

23 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Yet you believe Bill's pardon of him was not a "perversion of the justice system".

I believe any political pardon is a perversion of the justice system, outside of those where innocence is overwhelmingly likely, or where the conduct involved has since been decriminalised or sentencing guidelines drastically reduced. Even then it would be better if the justice system had better mechanisms in place to deal with those things than rely on the bestowal of discretionary benevolence. 

 

That said, there are perversions and there are perversions. Clinton doing his brother a favour 20 years ago, as distasteful as it may be, is far less damaging to the integrity of the federal government than pardoning someone for criminality they undertook on your behalf, and while they are still witholding from prosecutors information they have about your involvement.

 

Again, if you can explain which bit of that you don't understand I'm happy to try and explain it better.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

5 hours ago, airdvr said:

Yet you believe Bill's pardon of him was not a "perversion of the justice system".

Dude you need to stick with real estate.

[Phil1111 908]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

I believe any political pardon is a perversion of the justice system, outside of those where innocence is overwhelmingly likely, or where the conduct involved has since been decriminalised or sentencing guidelines drastically reduced. Even then it would be better if the justice system had better mechanisms in place to deal with those things than rely on the bestowal of discretionary benevolence. 

 

That said, there are perversions and there are perversions. Clinton doing his brother a favour 20 years ago, as distasteful as it may be, is far less damaging to the integrity of the federal government than pardoning someone for criminality they undertook on your behalf, and while they are still witholding from prosecutors information they have about your involvement....

Feigning ignorance is a part of the cognitive dissonance process. He isn't ignorant and further explanations are dismissed by FOX talking points. They tell its viewers what to think.

[murps2000 86]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

I believe any political pardon is a perversion of the justice system, outside of those where innocence is overwhelmingly likely, or where the conduct involved has since been decriminalised or sentencing guidelines drastically reduced. Even then it would be better if the justice system had better mechanisms in place to deal with those things than rely on the bestowal of discretionary benevolence. 

 

That said, there are perversions and there are perversions. Clinton doing his brother a favour 20 years ago, as distasteful as it may be, is far less damaging to the integrity of the federal government than pardoning someone for criminality they undertook on your behalf, and while they are still witholding from prosecutors information they have about your involvement.

 

Again, if you can explain which bit of that you don't understand I'm happy to try and explain it better.

There is a further bit of nuance here with regard to Roger Stone. If I understand the process correctly, had he been pardoned, he would no longer be able to avail himself of fifth amendment protection. With his sentence commuted, he still has that right, and can thus remain silent. I'm impressed that Trump was able to strategize that move, although I doubt he figured it out on his own.

[Coreece 189]

7 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

explanations are dismissed by FOX talking points. They tell its viewers what to think.

Dude, give it a rest.  There were 60+ million votes for Trump, and Fox has what, like 2-3 million viewers?

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

Dude, give it a rest.  There were 60+ million votes for Trump, and Fox has what, like 2-3 million viewers?

trump has stated again and again that he watches FOX. He quotes them, phones into their shows, hires their employees, has a bromance with the owner, and reacts to every direction that they lead.

FOX crafts the debate for the right and each of the network's debate leaders has the Murdoch right wing agenda. Currently its support trump and the GOP propaganda.

If the right thought for itself and could separate b.s. from facts. If trump stopped following each wag of the tail of the FOX like Pavlov's dog. The analogy you attempt to use may have merit.

It would even happen if the GOP and trump discussed policy, which of course they don't.

 

[DJL 232]

15 hours ago, airdvr said:

Yet you believe Bill's pardon of him was not a "perversion of the justice system".

If you do believe Bill's pardon was a "perversion of the justice system" then what do you think of Trump commuting Stone's sentence?

[airdvr 197]

They're all wrong and that power should be removed from the POTUS.

[Phil1111 908]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

They're all wrong and that power should be removed from the POTUS.

Agree

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

4 hours ago, airdvr said:

They're all wrong and that power should be removed from the POTUS.

Hi airdvr,

Philosophically, I would disagree.  However, with how it has been mis-used, I agree.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 908]

5 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi airdvr,

Philosophically, I would disagree.  However, with how it has been mis-used, I agree.

Jerry Baumchen

So brace yourself:

Press: Trump's final presidential pardon: himself

Jan. 20, 2021. EXCLUSIVE TO THE HILL: According to official documents obtained by our team of White House correspondents, President Trump’s last official act as president, just minutes before leaving the White House to head directly for Mar-A-Lago, pointedly boycotting incoming President Joe Biden’s Inauguration, was to issue one final presidential pardon.

In a brief written statement, Trump said, “Under absolute powers bestowed on me as president under Article II of the Constitution, I am awarding a full prospective, presidential pardon to the person who has been the most unfairly investigated and persecuted by our corrupt system of justice: Donald J. Trump.”

[yoink 321]

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

So brace yourself:

Press: Trump's final presidential pardon: himself

Jan. 20, 2021. EXCLUSIVE TO THE HILL: According to official documents obtained by our team of White House correspondents, President Trump’s last official act as president, just minutes before leaving the White House to head directly for Mar-A-Lago, pointedly boycotting incoming President Joe Biden’s Inauguration, was to issue one final presidential pardon.

In a brief written statement, Trump said, “Under absolute powers bestowed on me as president under Article II of the Constitution, I am awarding a full prospective, presidential pardon to the person who has been the most unfairly investigated and persecuted by our corrupt system of justice: Donald J. Trump.”

I said exactly this to some friends ages ago. 

The only problem with the scenario is that it would require Trump to acknowledge that he's done something wrong and I think he's pathologically incapable of that.

Edited July 15, 2020 by yoink

[ScottishJohn 25]

Just listened to a little bit of Trumps Rose Garden address 15/07/2020.

• Biden would abolish the suburbs and windows
• The European union  was formed to take advantage of America. Other Presidents didn't know that
• America is coming out of the pandemic on top 
• If we had half the testing we would half the number of people infected.
• America has the lowest mortality rate

If Biden doesn't win then I would hate to see the state of America after another 4 years of this madman.

Mean while Pence "We don't want CDC guidance to be a reason why people don't open their schools"

 

[Phil1111 908]

3 hours ago, ScottishJohn said:

Just listened to a little bit of Trumps Rose Garden address 15/07/2020.

• Biden would abolish the suburbs and windows
• The European union  was formed to take advantage of America. Other Presidents didn't know that
• America is coming out of the pandemic on top 
• If we had half the testing we would half the number of people infected.
• America has the lowest mortality rate

If Biden doesn't win then I would hate to see the state of America after another 4 years of this madman.

Mean while Pence "We don't want CDC guidance to be a reason why people don't open their schools"

 

Pretty much nails it. But you missed:

- How beautiful America is.

-How the stock market is beautiful

-How everyone around him is beautiful.

-That the job eliminating covid is going beautiful.

At that point CNN,ABC,NBC,CNBC all went back to regular programing. The circuit breakers for lies and b.s. tripped the feed.

[Coreece 189]

On 7/11/2020 at 10:12 PM, kallend said:

There is a new comet in the sky.

In the past comets were usually considered bad omens for kings or noble and powerful men.

Science.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

On 7/14/2020 at 6:43 AM, Coreece said:

Dude, give it a rest.  There were 60+ million votes for Trump, and Fox has what, like 2-3 million viewers?

That would impute an R naught factor of +/- 30. Seems about right.

[kallend 1,621]

5 hours ago, ScottishJohn said:

Just listened to a little bit of Trumps Rose Garden address 15/07/2020.

• The European union  was formed to take advantage of America. Other Presidents didn't know that
• America is coming out of the pandemic on top 
•  

 

USA is certainly on top of the new pandemic cases per capita graph.  Handily beating the EU.

 

And, of course, nobody knows more about anything than Trump - he told us.

[Coreece 189]

7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

On 7/14/2020 at 6:43 AM, Coreece said:

Dude, give it a rest.  There were 60+ million votes for Trump, and Fox has what, like 2-3 million viewers?

That would impute an R naught factor of +/- 30. Seems about right.

Being in advertising, I should've known better.  But still, Phil's going on ad nauseam about Fox is a bit excessive.  But I suppose it's no skin off my back.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

27 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Being in advertising, I should've known better.  But still, Phil's going on ad nauseam about Fox is a bit excessive.  But I suppose it's no skin off my back.

In fairness to Phil, Fox News is more than a bit excessive. What they spew spreads wide and far beyond only those who watch the show. One day early, two weeks I think, into the pandemic I was on lockdown at anchor in Sint Maarten. One morning on the VHF net we used for daily info some dipshit announced that President Trump discovered that Hydroxychloroquine was the cure and it would all be over soon. Turns out he heard it on SSB Radio from somebody somewhere that heard it on Fox News. Fox is a pox.

Edited July 15, 2020 by JoeWeber

[Coreece 189]

42 minutes ago, Coreece said:

56 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

On 7/14/2020 at 6:43 AM, Coreece said:

Dude, give it a rest.  There were 60+ million votes for Trump, and Fox has what, like 2-3 million viewers?

That would impute an R naught factor of +/- 30. Seems about right.

Being in advertising, I should've known better.  But still, Phil's going on ad nauseam about Fox is a bit excessive.  But I suppose it's no skin off my back.

16 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Fox News is more than a bit excessive. What they spew spreads wide and far beyond only those who watch the show.

Ya, I heard you the first time.

[jakee 1,254]

On 7/14/2020 at 11:43 AM, Coreece said:

Dude, give it a rest.  There were 60+ million votes for Trump, and Fox has what, like 2-3 million viewers?

??

Carlson's last show had 4 million viewers - that's people watching one episode of one show at the same time, and it's highly unlikely that the majority of regular or semi-regular viewers of the channel all sat down at the same time. They've got 20M+ social media followers and their youtube channel has 8B+ views. That's a heck of a lot of exposure before you even get into the repetition of their arguments from viewers to non-viewers.

While I'm sure they overestimate their influence, I think you're really underestimating it.

[Coreece 189]

3 minutes ago, jakee said:

On 7/14/2020 at 6:43 AM, Coreece said:

Dude, give it a rest.  There were 60+ million votes for Trump, and Fox has what, like 2-3 million viewers?

??

Carlson's last show had 4 million viewers - that's people watching one episode of one show at the same time, and it's highly unlikely that the majority of regular or semi-regular viewers of the channel all sat down at the same time. They've got 20M+ social media followers and their youtube channel has 8B+ views. That's a heck of a lot of exposure before you even get into the repetition of their arguments from viewers to non-viewers.

While I'm sure they overestimate their influence, I think you're really underestimating it.

Too bad for you - I've already awarded my concession to Joe.  But ya, that 20M+ followers is pretty impressive even if a big chunk of them are people like Phil.

[ryoder 1,381]

[Phil1111 908]

5 hours ago, Coreece said:

Too bad for you - I've already awarded my concession to Joe.  But ya, that 20M+ followers is pretty impressive even if a big chunk of them are people like Phil.

I don't get FOX but when I search Turtle, trump or the usual cast of trump supporting talking points up comes FOX. Either leading or reporting those same false ideas.

Somehow I think you and the GOP already know that.

[Coreece 189]

7 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

5 hours ago, Coreece said:

Too bad for you - I've already awarded my concession to Joe.  But ya, that 20M+ followers is pretty impressive even if a big chunk of them are people like Phil.

I don't get FOX

He was talking about FOX News on facebook.  You should follow so you can keep tabs and post even more links to their stories, propagating it even further than you already have.