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Phil1111

President Putin Put a Bounty on US Troops

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(edited)
8 hours ago, ryoder said:

In early 2020, members of the elite Naval Special Warfare Development Group, known to the public as SEAL Team Six, raided a Taliban outpost and recovered roughly $500,000. The recovered funds further solidified the suspicions of the American intelligence community that the Russians had offered money to Taliban militants and other linked associations.

Source: https://apnews.com/a59124b8eb95f6245286ddefe3dd0ffd

Of course Russia would return the favour to the US. They once tried to occupy and control Afghanistan. How many Russian troops were killed by Bin Ladin when America supported his side?

Edited by gowlerk

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6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Of course Russia would return the favour to the US. They once tried to occupy and control Afghanistan. How many Russian troops were killed by Bin Ladin when America supported his side?

You have a point there. Tom Hanks even made a movie about it:

 

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40 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Of course Russia would return the favour to the US. They once tried to occupy and control Afghanistan. How many Russian troops were killed by Bin Ladin when America supported his side?

The difference is supplying and using the weapons of war to win a war. As compared to a specifically targeted objective of driving the US out of Afghanistan. The Saudi's and the US supplied opposition fighters weapons to oppose the Syrian government. But didn't offer bounties to kill their Russian proxy advisors.

For the Taliban the objective is to win the war. Specifically killing US troops would likely cause the US to withdraw ground forces. Or perhaps withdraw all together faster.It could be a more cost effective way for them to win than killing government forces.

The direct targeting of Americans would be prima facie of Russian attacking America through the use of proxies. Just as Iran has done in the middle east by financing terror.

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42 minutes ago, ryoder said:

You have a point there. Tom Hanks even made a movie about it:

 

The only counterpoint is the killing by the US of Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani on January 3; Who was a quasi diplomat in Iraq. Russia was an invading army opposed by Afghanistan. The government in Kabul was a puppet government of Russia.

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6 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The difference is supplying and using the weapons of war to win a war. As compared to a specifically targeted objective of driving the US out of Afghanistan.

Are you not old enough to remember the 80s? That was the Taliban, paid and supplied by the good 'ol USA to drive the Soviet forces out of Afghanistan. Where the Russians were supporting a puppet government they had set up. How is that different?

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(edited)
28 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Are you not old enough to remember the 80s? That was the Taliban, paid and supplied by the good 'ol USA to drive the Soviet forces out of Afghanistan. Where the Russians were supporting a puppet government they had set up. How is that different?

The US supplied weapons to the mujahedin, "fighters against non believers". The Taliban are a separate religious body that formed in 1994. Charlie Wilson's War focused on killing Russians when the war was against the puppet government and Russian troops. Together with advanced Russian weapons for which the mujahedin had no response.

Targeting US troops specifically instead of the enemy overall in a declared or undeclared war. Is no different than the USS Cole bombing or Embassy bombings. The use of proxies to specifically target a nations troops. Is entirely different than supporting the enemy of a state by supplying a proxy.

Keep in mind that Russia has no affinity for the Taliban which are akin with the Chechen rebels which Russia fought a war with. The only real purpose for such actions is to drive the US out of the middle east.

Edited by Phil1111

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(edited)
25 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Targeting US troops specifically instead of the enemy overall in a declared or undeclared war.

The Russians are paying to help oust the invaders who are attempting to control Afghanistan. You can split hairs and call it more wrong than the US paying to oust a different set of invaders trying to control the country by a slightly different method of payment I suppose. I see no significant difference. Except maybe for which side God is on.

Edited by gowlerk

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Of course Russia would return the favour to the US. They once tried to occupy and control Afghanistan. How many Russian troops were killed by Bin Ladin when America supported his side?

Bin Laden was a very minor commander (rough equivalent of a brigade commander in typical military hierarchy) during the Russian war in Afghanistan. The US never gave direct support to him.
US support went mostly to one real piece of work, Hekmayter. He killed a bunch of rivals who were coming to a 'conference'. He aligned with the Taliban for a short while in the late 90s, until Taliban leaders realized what a piece of shit he was. 

 

31 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Are you not old enough to remember the 80s? That was the Taliban, paid and supplied by the good 'ol USA to drive the Soviet forces out of Afghanistan. Where the Russians were supporting a puppet government they had set up. How is that different?

The Taliban didn't exist until the mid-90s. They came to prominence because the different militas that sort of unified to defeat the Russians turned on each other after the Russians left (very typical of them, look at Afghan history). 
The surviving mujaheeden formed the 'Northern Alliance' under Ahmad Shad Masood and fought the Taliban for a while. They were almost defeated, and Masood was assasinated by an Al Queda team posing as journalists, who had a large bomb in the camera.

The Northern Alliance is who the SF helped out to defeat the Taliban in  01 & 02. 

 

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The Russians are paying to help oust the invaders who are attempting to control Afghanistan. You can split hairs and call it more wrong than the US paying to oust a different set of invaders trying to control the country by a slightly different method of payment I suppose. I see no significant difference. Except maybe for which side God is on.

I don't see any real difference either.

I don't really have an issue with the Russians offering a bounty for US soldiers. They want us out of Afghanistan...
And Europe...

So they can become the 'big player'. This isn't new.


Of course, pretending they are our 'friends' when they do this is pretty outrageous.

And for Trump to have known this (or should have known) and ignored it, while praising Putin and trying to get Russian sanctions lifted, trying to get them back into the G7/G8 is...

Treasonous.

 

Similarly, for Trump to pull forces out of Germany, pretending it's to 'save money' (It won't) when what it really does is give Putin a big advantage, is pretty much playing into Putin's hands. 

Kinda funny how much Trump says & does to help Putin.

Almost as if the Russians have something on him for leverage.

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14 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

...Kinda funny how much Trump says & does to help Putin.


Almost as if the Russians have something on him for leverage.

How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business

Deutsche Bank’s loans to Donald Trump were underwritten by Russian state-owned VTB Bank, according to the whistleblower whose collection of thousands of bank documents and internal communications have captured the recent attention of federal investigators.

Why Did Deutsche Bank Keep Lending to Donald Trump? — “Trump, Inc.”

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53 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The only real purpose for such actions is to drive the US out of the middle east.

Is this really the consensus on why Russia would do this?  It seems to me that killing US soldiers would cause peace deals and exits to break down more and extend the US presence in the region.  That presence becomes highly unpopular which serves the Russian goal of swaying world opinion against the US.

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34 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The Russians are paying to help oust the invaders who are attempting to control Afghanistan. You can split hairs and call it more wrong than the US paying to oust a different set of invaders trying to control the country by a slightly different method of payment I suppose. I see no significant difference. Except maybe for which side God is on.

The families of 158 Canadian troops killed and the thousands of Canadian wounded in support of UN resolution 1378 would disagree with that. Of course that resolution re-affirmed earlier UN resolutions in support of lawful democratic Afghan governments.

Without Pakistani, Iranian and other nation state support the Taliban would likely have been defeated by now. In addition the Taliban do not enjoy nation wide support in any area excepting the S and SE of the country. The areas closest to Pakistan.

Plus the 465 UK troops killed, 88 French, etc. Your simplistic view of war and politics in this area is surprising.

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11 minutes ago, DJL said:

Is this really the consensus on why Russia would do this?  It seems to me that killing US soldiers would cause peace deals and exits to break down more and extend the US presence in the region.  That presence becomes highly unpopular which serves the Russian goal of swaying world opinion against the US.

I don't think Putin is trying to hurt US opinion in the world. Causing trouble, disrupting US cohesiveness,  for the US casualties will end US involvement the fastest.

trump had a deal with the Taliban already but the current Afghanistan government was not a party to the agreement. Silly trump trying to make a peace deal with one party absent.

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3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

I don't think Putin is trying to hurt US opinion in the world.

I know we're speaking in a very limited context but I find this to be the highest goal of Vladimir Putin.

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Regardless of whether or not Putin was justified by precedent, or the righteousness of it, one fact remains:

The White House response was dereliction at best and treasonous at worst.

I fully expect to hear "I accept no responsibility".

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(edited)
47 minutes ago, DJL said:

Is this really the consensus on why Russia would do this?  It seems to me that killing US soldiers would cause peace deals and exits to break down more and extend the US presence in the region.  That presence becomes highly unpopular which serves the Russian goal of swaying world opinion against the US.

I'd agree with that. Fewer attacks would surely lead to a faster draw down of forces in the region. IMO from Russia's perspective more attacks will lead to more commitment of resources for more time that can't be used elsewhere, and a continuous stream of casualties means there is much less public and political appetite for major intervention in other areas like Syria where Russia really wants to cement their influence. 

 

Here's a thing, if you want one of those 'damn I feel old' moments, this isn't even the first year where soldiers are currently serving in occupied Afghanistan who weren't yet born when the occupation started. We're just about at the point where people who were part of the invasion force could have come home, then had kids, and those kids are now being deployed to the continuation of that conflict. Think of what US and Nato forces haven't done and where Russia has been able to step back in because we've been fighting in Afghanistan for a generation instead.

Edited by jakee

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8 minutes ago, DJL said:

I know we're speaking in a very limited context but I find this to be the highest goal of Vladimir Putin.

IMO Putin is allot like trump except he is intelligent and cunning. He wants to line his pockets first. Beyond that he wants to re-create as best he can a Russian hegemony wherever he can. He believes that knocking his main competitor down wherever and whenever he can is in his and Russian interests. That competitor is the US.

Distraction, the use of proxies, realpolitik actions are all designed to boost Russia and knock down the US. He can remain the main kleptocrat in Russia as long as Russian people are fooled by false Russian nationalism.

trump sort of follows those same lines and M.O. except trump has about 1% the intelligence and cunning. Putin of course enjoys the full and unrestricted capacity of the state including assassination. For which trump envies Putin.

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20 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The families of 158 Canadian troops killed and the thousands of Canadian wounded in support of UN resolution 1378 would disagree with that. Of course that resolution re-affirmed earlier UN resolutions in support of lawful democratic Afghan governments

I would note that Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, which was in support of our neighbours following the events of 9/11 2001, finally ended in 2014. Unfortunately those Canadian deaths did not make the situation today any better. Afghanistan can only be held by those willing to shed blood.

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(edited)
10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Unfortunately those Canadian deaths did not make the situation today any better. Afghanistan can only be held by those willing to shed blood.

I agree the money and Allied lives appear to have made modest gains. If the Pakistani ISI and Iranians left the country alone it might stand a chance to mold tribes into a national identity.

The winner of the latest Afghanistan wars:

Did Pakistan Win the Afghanistan War?

The Devastating Paradox of Pakistan. How Afghanistan’s neighbor cultivated American dependency while subverting American policy

Winning in Afghanistan Requires Taking the Fight to Pakistan

Edited by Phil1111

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15 minutes ago, DJL said:

I know we're speaking in a very limited context but I find this to be the highest goal of Vladimir Putin.

I think the highest goals of Vladimir Putin are 'all of the money' and 'all of the power'. 

 

Given his background I'm sure he does like taking the US down a peg wherever possible, but mostly as a side benefit to the goal of creating more Russian power in more places where his mafia state can make more money.

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6 minutes ago, jakee said:

I think the highest goals of Vladimir Putin are 'all of the money' and 'all of the power'.

Given his background I'm sure he does like taking the US down a peg wherever possible, but mostly as a side benefit to the goal of creating more Russian power in more places where his mafia state can make more money.

Completely agree and with the Russian elections this week. Putin's power and influence will only grow. He has assassinated enemies in several western states with impunity.

How Russian agents hunt down Putin's enemies. An investigation shows an elite team of Russian soldiers is deployed for 'sabotage, subversion and assassinations' to eliminate Vladimir Putin's enemies across Europe.

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On 6/28/2020 at 10:04 AM, airdvr said:

How many of those deaths will you attribute to Pelosi, Cumo, and DiBlasie?

None.

Trump's willful, knowing endangerment of the American people was for selfish political ends. The president refused to acknowledge the danger because he did not want the stock market to tank. He told the American people that the virus would just “go away.” When it did not, he recklessly urged people to “liberate” their states rather than follow public health guidelines — again, because he believed restarting the economy was essential to his reelection.

The result: The United States has nearly twice as many cases as any other country. It is registering 40,000 new cases a day; the European Union, with a larger population, has 4,000.

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Considering the silence of the right leaning posters on this forum, I can only conclude they are perfectly fine with the President of the United States not even condemning Russia for putting bounties on the heads of American soldiers.

Further solidifying that this right wing flag waiving and troop praising behaviour is really just nonsense to make themselves feel better.

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1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

How Russian agents hunt down Putin's enemies. An investigation shows an elite team of Russian soldiers is deployed for 'sabotage, subversion and assassinations' to eliminate Vladimir Putin's enemies across Europe.

It's stunning how widespread Russia's political assassination program is, and how many tiers of sophistication it works on. There's the big, loud, 'statement' assassinations they use on defectors and important former insiders like the Litvinenko and Salisbury poisonings. Professional operations from top to bottom using such exotic methods (radioactive elements and nerve agents) that are as much (or more) about sending a message than getting rid of the specific person. Then there are the 'normal' professional murders - still all in house with the FSB and military hit squads but with everyday methods like blowing up cars or apartments, and plain old shootings - often used for important political opponents in client states and journalists who are finding too much of Putin's dirty laundry.

 

But then there's all the casual stuff as well. People they or their pocket dictators kinda want to go away but aren't really important that important in the grand scheme of things. Incredibly, Russia doesn't just let things like that slide - they still go after them just with disposable assassins instead of professional assets. For instance the current mad thug in charge of Chechnya takes internet criticism extremely seriously, so the Russians are doing him a favour. Multiple expat Chechen social media critics have been killed or faced attempts on their life by Russian citizens who have been blackmailed into it by the security services. Faced with credit card debts or minor convictions they've been provided with flights in and out, and fake documentation and sent into various european countries to kill people for what they posted on Instagram, with the promise that prosecutions would be dropped or credit cards paid off when they got back to Moscow.

 

The extent of it beyond the headline grabbing hits is freakin' insane. In Putin's new Old Russia the FSB will go after anyone, anywhere for any reason and they don't give a fuck about what anyone thinks.

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13 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Considering the silence of the right leaning posters on this forum, I can only conclude they are perfectly fine with the President of the United States not even condemning Russia for putting bounties on the heads of American soldiers.

Not just not condemning it, he's now actively participating in the Russian propaganda response. Tweeting that he wasn't briefed because the info wasn't credible, and claiming that Russia denied and anyway they haven't faced many attacks so everything's fine. I am truly stunned.

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