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434

Who will vote Trump?

Will you vote this year?   

39 members have voted

  1. 1. I will vote!

    • Trump
      6
    • Biden
      20
    • Someone else
      1
    • Will not vote
      1
    • Blanc vote
      0
    • I am not American support Trump
      0
    • I am not American support Biden
      8
    • I am not American I do not care
      1
    • What would Jesus do?
      2
  2. 2. Did you vote for Trump last election

    • Yes
      7
    • No
      21
    • Not American
      11
  3. 3. Do you regret voting for Trump

    • Yes
      0
    • No
      1
    • Hell no
      5
    • Did not vote for Trump
      22
    • Not American
      11


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45 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Did you actually watch the video? It's quite short and is very easy to understand.

Yes I did.

It is also very vague as to how they determine who and how the change in voting starts with the second round of elections.

There are a lot of assumptions made.

I'm not disagreeing with the end result, but how they got there needs to be fleshed out considerably.

 

I am a fan of the second place winner being the vice president.  I think it would go a long way to keeping things on the straight and narrow.

I also want some serious term limits in the House and the Senate.  But - really - would you go to your board of directors and lobby that you really need to make sure you are laid off after a number of years?

That's a really hard sell.

 

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15 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It is also very vague as to how they determine who and how the change in voting starts with the second round of elections.

There are a lot of assumptions made.

What do you mean? I can help explain it to you if needed, although the video has already brought the explanation down to a very simple level.

Basically this phenomenon is called Duverger's Law, as voters would rather choose the "lesser of 2 evils" rather than waste their vote on a candidate or party with no chance of winning. Repeat this over many elections and you'll end up with a 2-party system.

You've seen this with many posters here.

17 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Because someone has to help balance it out.

<facepalm>

Okay...what's your proof that you're centrist?

Telling yourself over and over again isn't proof. Your mother telling you that you're special also isn't really proof that you're special.

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(edited)
7 minutes ago, olofscience said:

 although the video has already brought the explanation down to a very simple level.

Basically this phenomenon is called Duverger's Law, as voters would rather choose the "lesser of 2 evils" rather than waste their vote on a candidate or party with no chance of winning. Repeat this over many elections and you'll end up with a 2-party system.

You've seen this with many posters here.

<facepalm>

Okay...what's your proof that you're centrist?

Telling yourself over and over again isn't proof. Your mother telling you that you're special also isn't really proof that you're special.

Its too simple - 

This is a better explanation.

 

It is obvious from where the issues are argued from vs where the center line actually is.

The insults diminish the amount of credit you were given.

 

 

Edited by turtlespeed

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6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It is obvious from where the issues are argued from vs where the center line actually is.

Hmm you're being very inconsistent here. You say it's obvious where the centre line is with a range of complex arguments on this forum, but the video's high-school level explanation of Duverger's law, using animals, is vague and makes a lot of assumptions?

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29 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Because someone has to help balance it out.

Then you're not being misunderstood, people simply treat you in accordance with the way you post. You claim to be a centrist but admit that you intentionally post in constant defence of the right and constant criticism of the left. So why shoud anyone believe you?

Quote

Were you aware that one can be centrist compared to the people around them, and still be partisan?

And you think that's you? Again, there are several posters on here who are former republican voters who still agree with many of the tenets of the traditional republican platform but can post against the current conservative leadership and in favour of current democrat policies when it chimes with what they believe is right or wrong. You claim to not be a hard line republican anymore yet you still always post in defence of the republicans and against the democrats no matter how much you have to twist and misinterpret your sources in order to do so. Sometimes even to the extent of claiming things are the exact opposite of the way they really are.

 

So what is it that you're hiding from everyone that makes you a centrist, and why do you try so hard not to look like one?

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2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Hmm you're being very inconsistent here. You say it's obvious where the centre line is with a range of complex arguments on this forum, but the video's high-school level explanation of Duverger's law, using animals, is vague and makes a lot of assumptions?

Yes, but those two topics are not very inter-related, if at all.

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4 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Anyone notice that someone running for the GOP nomination 4 years ago, just announced they are supporting Biden?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/carly-fiorina-vote-biden/613474/

I'm sure Turtlespeed will be along momentarily to explain why that means she's hyper-left wing, and should be more centrist like him.

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(edited)
16 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Yes, but those two topics are not very inter-related, if at all.

Even if you diminish the amount of credit I'm given, I'll just do this for the other readers here:

  1. In the video, the 2 types of animals are:
    1. herbivores
    2. predators
  2. However this is NOT a black/white classification as some animals are omnivores
  3. These types can be an analogue of left-wing, right-wing, and centrists in terms of political affiliation
  4. now the voters for the extremists (tiger and turtle) realise that their candidates have a low chance of winning
    1. they also take note that out of the 2 most popular candidates, 1 of them *might* have something in common with themselves (assumption: normal human behaviour in seeking out people similar to yourself)
    2. if anyone wins they're prefer the candidate to be the same general type as them (herbivore or carnivore) even if they're not the first choice - i.e. lesser of 2 evils
    3. rather than waste their vote, they hold their nose and vote for their second choice
    4. due to diminishing number of members and voters, tiger and turtle drop out of the race/run out of funds/etc.
    5. repeat several times, and you end up with only 2 parties

To avoid confusion please note that "turtle" on the explanation above is about the video I posted, rather than the SC poster claiming to be centrist.

Edited by olofscience

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16 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

I take it as how the two party system has two players that are almost the same.  You could put an R or a D on either side of the chart and it would be just as true either way.

We need a third party. 

If you think the two major parties are the same, why would a third major party be different?

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1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

This is a better explanation.

Actually, that IS a better one.

Anyway, since the electoral college is in the US Constitution, until that changes 3rd parties will probably continue to fail.

As a side note, the EU Parliament is actually a proportional representation system as explained in that video, making it more fair than our own UK system. Didn't stop Leavers from saying it's undemocratic/unelected though.

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52 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Actually, that IS a better one.

Anyway, since the electoral college is in the US Constitution, until that changes 3rd parties will probably continue to fail.

As a side note, the EU Parliament is actually a proportional representation system as explained in that video, making it more fair than our own UK system. Didn't stop Leavers from saying it's undemocratic/unelected though.

what would go a long way towards reforming the system we have is mandating the ec to split the votes according to the percentages of the popular votes by state.  not only would that eliminate the "swing states", it would go a long way towards getting more involved in the process if they thought they might actually be heard instead of just ruled.

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2 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

what would go a long way towards reforming the system we have is mandating the ec to split the votes according to the percentages of the popular votes by state.  not only would that eliminate the "swing states", it would go a long way towards getting more involved in the process if they thought they might actually be heard instead of just ruled.

That is not up to the EC; It is up to the states. Maine and Nebraska are already doing it.

In fact the whole winner-take-all bullshit was created by the states; Nothing in the Constitution says it is supposed to be that way.

https://www.270towin.com/content/split-electoral-votes-maine-and-nebraska/

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(edited)
3 hours ago, kallend said:

In the same way that Satan provides balance.

Similar - since there is no such person . . . 

 

I commend you on the PA of comparing me to the devil, though, but, to be honest, you have done much better in the past.  

Still . . .  it was pretty good.

Edited by turtlespeed

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2 hours ago, olofscience said:

Actually, that IS a better one.

Anyway, since the electoral college is in the US Constitution, until that changes 3rd parties will probably continue to fail.

As a side note, the EU Parliament is actually a proportional representation system as explained in that video, making it more fair than our own UK system. Didn't stop Leavers from saying it's undemocratic/unelected though.

I'm an odd one in the conservative groups, since I appreciate and welcome a proportional elections.

 

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3 hours ago, olofscience said:

Even if you diminish the amount of credit I'm given, I'll just do this for the other readers here:

  1. In the video, the 2 types of animals are:
    1. herbivores
    2. predators
  2. However this is NOT a black/white classification as some animals are omnivores
  3. These types can be an analogue of left-wing, right-wing, and centrists in terms of political affiliation
  4. now the voters for the extremists (tiger and turtle) realise that their candidates have a low chance of winning
    1. they also take note that out of the 2 most popular candidates, 1 of them *might* have something in common with themselves (assumption: normal human behaviour in seeking out people similar to yourself)
    2. if anyone wins they're prefer the candidate to be the same general type as them (herbivore or carnivore) even if they're not the first choice - i.e. lesser of 2 evils
    3. rather than waste their vote, they hold their nose and vote for their second choice
    4. due to diminishing number of members and voters, tiger and turtle drop out of the race/run out of funds/etc.
    5. repeat several times, and you end up with only 2 parties

To avoid confusion please note that "turtle" on the explanation above is about the video I posted, rather than the SC poster claiming to be centrist.

:rofl: re: to avoid confusion comment!

I got all the rest of it.

But turtles representing the far left . . . really?

j/kxD

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