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thetreehugger

Unsupportive people/downers/scare-bears

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I am pretty new to skydiving. I've found that I come across two kinds of people out of people I know: those that are excited and happy for me, and those who try to scare me and are non-supportive. I don't know what their motivation is. Someone posted on my FB wall the other day about a fatality in Ontario -- why?? what is the motivation? i understand there are risks involved, but there are risks in driving a vehicle. Should I get notified with postings any time there is a car accident? It just bothers me. A lot. I purposely don't watch the news because it gives me anxiety, so I really don't need someone doing that to me.

And i find, even though my drop zone is like 90% amazing people, there are a handful who seem to ENJOY talking about people's injuries and deaths and whatever else. I wonder if they are doing it on purpose to seem really cool ("yeah, well ___ happened to me...") or to scare the new jumpers.

I usually try to just walk away. I just wish people would keep their opinions and thoughts to themselves. I've found this aspect of my new sport really difficult.

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If you jump long enough you'll find it particularly difficult to deal with friends that die - and it's a straight fact that you will have friends that die in this sport if you stay.

Skydivers deal with this in many ways..... black humor is typical. Discussing accidents to learn from them is always beneficial as long as it isn't just a re-hash.

My advice would be to listen quietly learn what you can and don't judge to harshly.
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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I don't tell people I jump.

I find it's too much of a high bar for people to understand as they immediately feel insecure and have to justify their own insecurity in not skydiving by declaring that we must have a 'death wish'/ or they'd like to do that but 'have a family' / I like extreme sports 'I ride motorbikes'/or 'I want to fly those suit things' Human nature is funny sometimes.

Nobody cares you skydive except you and a few loved ones.

People tend to put down / negate things they can't comprehend.

Welcome to the sport :)

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thetreehugger

, there are a handful who seem to ENJOY talking about people's injuries and deaths and whatever else. I wonder if they are doing it on purpose to seem really cool ("yeah, well ___ happened to me...") or to scare the new jumpers.



It sort of goes with the territory. Occasionally it might be to scare newbies but if so, I usually find it to be part of a safety related discussion and not out of meanness. There's a lot to be learned from all the scary tales. Admittedly if one is a newbie it may take some digging to figure out just what the lesson really is, to what degree something was due to bad decisions or just bad luck.

(E.g., if someone relates their tale of nearly getting injured on an off-landing, it doesn't mean one should always try to make a beeline for the DZ. Off-landings have hazards, but sometimes planning one early is a much smarter idea than maybe barely making it back onto the DZ grass, which can also injure or kill people.)

Part of being told about bad stuff is that it is just telling a tale -- an exciting "war story" so to speak. Skydiving has given me all sorts of tales. Although they are best when nobody actually gets hurt, a tale sounds scarier if something bad happens.

It happens here too on DZ; people like sharing their stories. If someone asks about how to do night jumps, they'll get some good info, plus some scary tales. Which may still have some learning value even if they are outliers.

For non-skydivers, it is a problem when someone has little info on a subject. You mention skydiving, and the only thing skydiving that pops to mind is, "Hey, didn't some girl die in Ontario in a skydiving accident?" So if you don't want to risk that kind of conversation and want to tell them to shut up, then you pretty much have to do the same and avoid sounding like, "I'm super excited about being into this cool sport (that's probably cooler than anything you do)".

If you want other jumpers to be better ambassadors for the sport and be a little more supportive, then you should also try to be more patient with the whuffos and their comments and questions. Even if they sound like dumbasses. Which we all are, when it comes to things we don't know about.

Oh, did I tell you, I was once on a load where a guy I knew died? :S

As they used to say more often,
blue skies, black death!

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Somewhere up ahead, there is a time which will come to every one of us.....the moment of death.

What we are doing at that time is irrelevant.

So why worry about it beforehand? If its not your time, you will be OK.

Lots of people die in bed.

C'est la vie.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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>Someone posted on my FB wall the other day about a fatality in Ontario -- why?? what is the
>motivation?

For many whuffos, that's the only thing they see/hear about skydiving.

I get asked all the time after a fatality or plane crash "did you know so and so? Did you see the crash?"

They are not trying to scare me or be non-supportive; that's just the only news they see about skydiving so they talk to me about it.

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Also: accidents and deaths are the only parts of skydiving that non jumpers can understand (and they don't really understand the detail, just the healine leven summary).

3 ways, tracking, CRW, RW, FF, BOC, DZ, caravan, otter, skyvan, porter, 182, 206, DC3, minutes in the tunnel, swooping, accuracy, any skydive you went on, skill you're building, or gear you have, etc, it's all gibberish to them, but someone who died or landed in a tree they can discuss with you.

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A lot of newer jumpers go through a phase where they brag a lot, and figuratively give the grim reaper their middle finger. It's the cool thing to do to show how brave, daring and cool they are, compared to everyone else.

This phase usually ends the first time a skydiving friend dies in the sport. Then they calm down and act more mature.

Don't let 'em bother you. Rise above it.

After a 1,000 jumps you don't even tell people outside the drop zone that you're a skydiver any more, because you tire of dealing with the ignorance and predictable responses.

However, the stories of malfunctions, injuries and deaths done in a mature manner, are indeed instructive, and teach valuable lessons that could keep you from making the same mistakes. That's why USPA publishes accident reports in the magazine. Don't tune those out - learn from them.

- Diogenese

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thetreehugger

This is all good stuff. Thank you.

I guess it's just hard for me to hear about scary situations when I'm about to do a new thing for a jump and am already quite nervous. :S

But yeah. I'll try to put it in perspective and learn when I can and know when to walk away.



Skydiving, as we know, can be the best experience of your life......peace, love and mung beans, if you like.

It can also be instantly brutal.

Its why it can be termed an extreme sport....emotions can range from the very best to the very worst.

That's the reality.

Its why every jumper needs to be at the top of their game, on every jump. You need to embrace the good as well as the bad, and learn from it all.

It will help keep you alive.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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thetreehugger

This is all good stuff. Thank you.

I guess it's just hard for me to hear about scary situations when I'm about to do a new thing for a jump and am already quite nervous. :S

But yeah. I'll try to put it in perspective and learn when I can and know when to walk away.



You should be nervous. Like us, you have chosen to play a deadly game. However there are many deadly games out there and no one gets out alive. My advice to new jumpers is simple. Learn how to stay safe and your odds are greatly improved.

In no particular order:

1. Make good decisions and know when to stand down.

2. Get proper training for whatever you choose to do.

3. Get top notch gear, maintain it properly, and equip yourself with the best technology.

4. Understand the difference between knowledge, skill, and judgment and learn to recognize them - and the lack of them - in others (see number 1).

5. Leave your ego at home. It is the single most dangerous thing in skydiving.

6. Never stop learning how to be better and safer.

7. Don't be part of the problem. If you believe something is dangerous, speak out.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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That's a well thought through list Chuck.

I would make a couple minor changes and I'm sure everyone would have their own variants.

3. Get top notch gear, maintain it properly, and equip yourself with the best technology

3. Get gear that is safe for the mission, and maintain it properly.

(You don't need fancy new expensive shit. Although that makes it easier. A brand new rig will have fewer limitations than a Vector II. A Vector II may be perfectly fine for some things, but would be more dangerous in a newbies hands, since he may not know all the caveats.)(Certainly there are differing opinions on what you "should" have these days "to be safe". RSL? MARD?)

8a. If you choose to do something intentionally more dangerous, make sure you are doing it as safely as possible in the circumstances.

(e.g., CRW is more dangerous than not doing CRW. So learn to do it properly if that's what you want to do.)

8b. Even if risking yourself, don't risk others who aren't involved.

(e.g., take a chance with yourself if you want, but don't take off the tail of the airplane or hit someone else in freefall or under canopy. Jumping with a 3rd canopy being deployed from a shopping bag? Sure! But make sure it isn't going to get loose in the door and endanger everyone else.)(DZO's may have a more risk averse feeling on this though, as these days they get all picky about people dying on their DZ's)

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Wow, it may be a good idea to have chuckakers' list hanging up at DZs. Awesome.

To the OP: are you referring to other skydivers, non-skydivers or both? I mean the people who say those things. Because, yeah, skydivers can a have a kooky, even morbid, sense of humor. But any first year psychology major will tell you that this is perfectly normal for people engaging in an 'extreme sport.'

Other people could be worried about you so they're trying to warn you--like if its friends or family. If its not then maybe that's just wuffos that are envious so they have to try and break your balls. They're jealous of your courage and overall awesomeness.

I can pretty much guarantee that the vast majority of skydivers you'll come across will be kind, supportive, positive, fascinating--shit, crazy!--people.

So, welcome! It's an awesome community to be a part of. You'll see... We're lucky. Oh and be safe, learn as much as you can and have fun!

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thetreehugger

I guess it's just hard for me to hear about scary situations when I'm about to do a new thing for a jump and am already quite nervous. :S

But yeah. I'll try to put it in perspective and learn when I can and know when to walk away.

We learn from our mistakes. If the mistakes are potentially fatal, it's best to learn from other's mistakes. Most jump stories have a lesson in them, sometimes positive, sometimes negative. Even the negative ones will reinforce the necessity of making good judgements and taking timely actions.

I've had the misfortune to have had some pretty weird things happen to me and the good fortune of having had the training to survive those things. :)

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thetreehugger

I am pretty new to skydiving. I've found that I come across two kinds of people out of people I know: those that are excited and happy for me, and those who try to scare me and are non-supportive. I don't know what their motivation is. Someone posted on my FB wall the other day about a fatality in Ontario -- why?? what is the motivation? i understand there are risks involved, but there are risks in driving a vehicle. Should I get notified with postings any time there is a car accident? It just bothers me. A lot. I purposely don't watch the news because it gives me anxiety, so I really don't need someone doing that to me.



This can be said for almost every activity I've ever done
1. Don't ride motorcycles, it's dangerous, you could die
2. Don't do Muay Thai, you are going to destroy your body and bones
3. Don't do BJJ, the wear and tear on your joints will be too much over time
4. If you own guns the risk of you shooting yourself increases exponentially
5. Don't drag race your new expensive car, you're going to total it and be fucked

The truth is out of all the extreme activities I have done, the one that is most likely to kill me is my 50 minute ride to work

Life is short, do what makes you happy. Some people are so afraid to live that they criticize any fun activity anyone does, and label it as dangerous or irresponsible. No one gets out alive, enjoy the ride

And as far as people that bring up mortality: I generally think they are fascinated and have no other way to relate. Personally I look up mortality statistics for almost every activity I do in an attempt to learn what not to do
IE its rude to die with you handles in tact

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PeteW

I just tell people I skydive because it helps my anxiety. Usually leaves them confused.



Haha, in my case, it's actually the truth. It's not the only reason I do it, but it's pretty much the only thing I can do that gives my noggen some peace and quiet!
blank

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ajay

Haha, in my case, it's actually the truth. It's not the only reason I do it, but it's pretty much the only thing I can do that gives my noggen some peace and quiet!



Me too - starting skydiving did wonders for my mental health and confidence. It made me a whole lot of amazing friends and gave me more of a sense of purpose in life.

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Agreeing with pterodactyl!1986

How they challenge their youths is a measure of the maturity of a society.
All teenagers want to challenge themselves physically and mentally to prove that they are capable of the greater challenges in life.
Back in cave-man days, chasing a pack of wolves off a deer carcass might mean the difference between starvation or survival.
Modern society - with steady food supplies - presents fewer live-or-die challenges ..... so societies invent other challenges: cattle rustling, warfare, exploration, mountain climbing, deep sea diving, barroom brawling, marathon running, skydiving, etc.
Skydiving offers a rare opportunity to scare your self to death but still have a reasonable chance of survival .... IF ..... you follow the plan.

Whenever I hear that old saw: "Why would you want to jump out of a perfectly serviceable airplane?"
I rely: "You haven't seen our airplanes!"
If they persist in their obnoxious ... I offer them a long, painful, bloody story about my last ride in a particular King Air. If they doubt my story, I point them towards the wreckage laying in the middle of Pitt Meadows Airport.

If whuffos switch to asking "Do you have a death wise?"
I reply 'Yup! But I must be the clumsiest suicide in history becasue I have failed more than 6,000 attempts."

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There are differences between scare mongers, like people who have told me for the last 25yrs that i'm a temporary citizen cos I ride motorbikes, and jumpers who talk about recent fatalities. If any of you have ever worked in the construction industry, you will know about Tool Box Tools. They are used to dicuss recent issues and highlight dangers

Talking about these things
1; Helps people process the loss
2; keeps in mind that what we do has very real risks
3; Helps inform lessons we need to keep in mind.

I read a BPA report on a fatality this year, and I talked about it with my instructor, which helped me to understand things I did'nt know.

Lets hope we all stay safe.

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It's human nature to enjoy a spook story. Whether you're a jumper or not, it's fun to get a little vicarious thrill by relating tales of danger and death from the safety of the bar or the bonfire.

Additional to that, for some non-jumpers I think resentment plays a part - their impression is that skydivers think they're something special (and in some cases they're right). Because of that, when someone gets killed or injured they will seize on the story, and you'll see and hear a lot of comments about it being the deserved result of selfish, reckless behaviour.

Finally, although this is certainly a risky sport it's generally nowhere near as dangerous as people like to imagine it is, and that applies to both participants and non-participants alike. There's a certain type of skydiver, happily in the minority, who's in the sport only because of that perception of danger and the fact that they think it makes them a more exciting personality. Those people are probably the ones who jump the least and tell the most spook stories. :)
The bottom line is, although you've certainly increased your level of personal risk by becoming a jumper, the odds are very high that it's something completely unrelated to skydiving that will get you in the end. ;)

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