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turtlespeed

How about some good news for a change!!

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17 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I am against subsidies of all kinds, pass the true cost onto the end consumer and let the free market decide. 

But this is exactly my point. You don't have a free market. You have an incumbent industry who has been - and continues to be - propped up, and a newcomer being denied the same benefits then pointed at as unable to compete on its merits.

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8 hours ago, brenthutch said:

No it’s more like; when an EV can do what my SUV can do at the same price point they will become a viable alternative.  (BTW not a single EV in the top 25, not one)

But your SUV ALREADY can't do what the Ford Transit can do at the same price point.  A Ford Transit costs $24,000.  What did yours cost? 

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11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I am against subsidies of all kinds, pass the true cost onto the end consumer and let the free market decide.

That's the quickest way to give up ownership of technology and development while other countries get ahead of us.  Don't ignore the vertical aspect of industries, if you want US companies to excel then you need US money putting them there and not everyone has a Scrooge McDuck bank of money to throw at R&D.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, DJL said:
1 hour ago, DJL said:

That's the quickest way to give up ownership of technology and development while other countries get ahead of us.  Don't ignore the vertical aspect of industries, if you want US companies to excel then you need US money putting them there and not everyone has a Scrooge McDuck bank of money to throw at R&D.

SpaceX seems to be getting by on private equity.  

Edited by brenthutch

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(edited)
11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

SpaceX seems to be getting by on private equity.  

You think that's the norm?  Because if it were then why isn't everyone doing it?  Also, do you know that NASA has given SpaceX $3.1 billion dollars?

Edited by DJL

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2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Zero to sixty in six seconds?

Ah!  In that case your car can't do anything near what EV's can. The Model X can do 0-60 in 2.6 seconds.  When your SUV can do what a Tesla can do at the same price point, it will become a viable option for people.

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2 hours ago, billvon said:

Ah!  In that case your car can't do anything near what EV's can. The Model X can do 0-60 in 2.6 seconds.  When your SUV can do what a Tesla can do at the same price point, it will become a viable option for people.

Not enough range, 305(less in winter) vs 422

Not enough room 120 cu.ft. vs 143.6 cu.ft.

Insufficient towing capacity 4960lbs vs 7500lbs

I will grant you teenage boys will be impressed with the doors on the model x

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2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Not enough range, 305(less in winter) vs 422

Not enough room 120 cu.ft. vs 143.6 cu.ft.

Insufficient towing capacity 4960lbs vs 7500lbs

I will grant you teenage boys will be impressed with the doors on the model x

Let us know when they can reach 60 in 2.6.

 

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Where EV tech reaches the tipping point is simple:

When it becomes more financially viable to go EV than it does to drive a fossil-fueled vehicle. Historically, most popular tech becomes a lot more popular when it falls in line with what people can afford. 

Some examples:

  • Personal computers, which used to cost thousands of dollars a unit and didn't work very well. 
  • Home stereo systems and fancy televisions, which once cost a couple of months in wages, but which you can now get via Amazon on the cheap. Sure, you can pay for the very latest tech. But tech that works, serves your needs, and looks good has become cheap. Sony once said they were considering STOPPING making TV's for the US market, because they couldn't compete with the cheap TV's that had most of the same features and worked well for most people. They later withdrew that statement, but it shows some companies know how to crank out tech cheaply for the masses. 
  • Smartphones, where some models are still a bit spendy, but which can still be obtained for less than a hundred bucks, or sometimes free, by signing up to a provider. 
  • Solar tech, which used to be expensive no matter what was being powered. Now you can get solar-powered this or that for almost nothing, although some things solar, such as going solar for an entire home to provide the power for it, is still a major investment. But your solar powered radio, or other small devices are practically the price as the battery-powered versions. 
  • High-tech in general, because it has lowered costs in factories to produce a myriad of other things, has kept prices for many smaller, or more commonly-used items to a reasonable level. 

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(edited)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2020/07/25/the-tesla-paradox-highest-emotional-attachment-lowest-quality-says-jd-power/#f4a6e7d7594c


 

The manufacturing quality of Tesla vehicles is low according to the J.D. Power annual Initial Quality Study released June 24. According to the Wall Street Journal, the survey found that “Tesla vehicles, in their first time appearing in the survey, were found to have 250 problems per 100 vehicles compared with an industry average this year of 166 problems.” That is the worst performance in the industry. As David Sargent, VP, Global Automotive at J.D. Power, told me in a July 24 interview, “Tesla’s score of 250 was the highest of any manufacturer in the study. Why the poor quality? It’s not the fact that they are making an electric vehicle. It’s the basics. On the outside of the vehicle [there are problems with] door closures, panel fit, wind noise, and paint quality. On the inside it’s the interior finish that’s not completely attached, rattles and squeaking that are more noticeable in an electric vehicle because it’s quiet.”

Why would anyone, in their right mind, choose a Tesla over any other premium car? According to J.D Power, they are a POS.  I guess It makes sense if the need to race at stoplights (like a teenage boy) and virtue signal overrides any rational impulse.

Edited by brenthutch

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21 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2020/07/25/the-tesla-paradox-highest-emotional-attachment-lowest-quality-says-jd-power/#f4a6e7d7594c


 

The manufacturing quality of Tesla vehicles is low according to the J.D. Power annual Initial Quality Study released June 24. According to the Wall Street Journal, the survey found that “Tesla vehicles, in their first time appearing in the survey, were found to have 250 problems per 100 vehicles compared with an industry average this year of 166 problems.” That is the worst performance in the industry. As David Sargent, VP, Global Automotive at J.D. Power, told me in a July 24 interview, “Tesla’s score of 250 was the highesGoddamn t of any manufacturer in the study. Why the poor quality? It’s not the fact that they are making an electric vehicle. It’s the basics. On the outside of the vehicle [there are problems with] door closures, panel fit, wind noise, and paint quality. On the inside it’s the interior finish that’s not completely attached, rattles and squeaking that are more noticeable in an electric vehicle because it’s quiet.”

Why would anyone, in their right mind, choose a Tesla over any other premium car.  According to J.D Power, they are a POS.  I guess It makes sense if the need to race at stoplights (like a teenage boy) and virtue signal overrides any rational impulse.

Goddamn son, now you listen to me. My horse will eat grass along the road with no complaint and pull the wagon dawn till dark. You see any free gas cans along the road? Nope. But you will see your Pa dragging them horseless carriages back to town, and that's a fact. Mark my words, boy. As grand dad Hutchings always said.......

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19 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

...

Why would anyone, in their right mind, choose a Tesla over any other premium car.  According to J.D Power, they are a POS.  I guess It makes sense if the need to race at stoplights (like a teenage boy) and virtue signal overrides any rational impulse.

 

Why Tesla has the most loyal customers.   Sept. 6, 2014

Forbes, that would be the same source you quoted.1. A Good Experience Creates Loyal Customers Tesla has the most loyal customers of any car company with an overall satisfaction rating of 90%. A staggering 80% of customers buy or lease another Tesla for their next car. Some customers were even willing to wait years to get their Model 3s.Feb. 2019

Mercedes Benz customer loyalty 2019 44% Gee that would be 1/2 the loyalty of Tesla.

Brent, quit while you're behind! You dig the hole deeper and deeper with every example. You haven't graduated from trump University have you?

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19 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Why Tesla has the most loyal customers.   Sept. 6, 2014

Forbes, that would be the same source you quoted.1. A Good Experience Creates Loyal Customers Tesla has the most loyal customers of any car company with an overall satisfaction rating of 90%. A staggering 80% of customers buy or lease another Tesla for their next car. Some customers were even willing to wait years to get their Model 3s.Feb. 2019

Mercedes Benz customer loyalty 2019 44% Gee that would be 1/2 the loyalty of Tesla.

Brent, quit while you're behind! You dig the hole deeper and deeper with every example. You haven't graduated from trump University have you?

Did you not read the article?  The customer loyalty is inversely proportional to the level of quality.  It is just a bunch of guys desperately trying to justify their bad decision.

what part of “lowest quality” did you not understand?

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4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Did you not read the article?  The customer loyalty is inversely proportional to the level of quality.  It is just a bunch of guys desperately trying to justify their bad decision.

what part of “lowest quality” did you not understand?

Boy have those Germans ever brainwashed you. As quality and product experience goes up, generally loyalty goes up. Quality, service, product satisfaction is directly related to loyalty. An inverse relationship would mean that poor quality i.e. increasing defects, poor customer service and poor brand experience would have increased loyalty. Your story is flawed as is your understanding of an inverse relationship.

Sigh, trump is German so I guess that makes sense. The stupider trump is the more loyal his supporters become.Thats an inverse relationship.

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