SkyDekker 1,286 #101 June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, DJL said: But it can be racist and I'm not saying it cannot. I'm saying you can't take 4 seconds of someone who looks mad and makes the OK signal and say that therefore it's racist any more than you can say you have a black friend and therefore you cannot be racist. This shouldn't be confusing. You really cannot make that automatic assumption with no context or knowledge of the situation. first of all, let's revisit your opening two lines on the subject: "Absolutely NOT. The OK sign was NOT appropriated into white power symbolism." That should take care of the first part of your post. Secondly, I didn't say the cop was racist. I said he threw a white power sign. He threw a white power sign at a black lives matter protest. There is very little chance he didn't know that sign couldn't possibly be misconstrued at a black lives matter protest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #102 June 2, 2020 2 hours ago, SkyDekker said: Turtle, funny that for a guy who always has a come-back, you go silent on a post like this. And you wonder why people make assumptions about you....... I didn't take the time skimming your post to open the links. It's not funny at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #103 June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DJL said: Maybe he was saying OK. You mean like - "Hey is that guy Okay?!!" and instead of trying to yell over the crowd . . . "Hand signal." <GASP!> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #104 June 2, 2020 29 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Look, somebody is doing a symbol in a non-racist way, therefor it cannot be racist. Look I have a black friend, therefor I cannot be racist. Racists - Racists EVERYWHERE!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #105 June 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: first of all, let's revisit your opening two lines on the subject: "Absolutely NOT. The OK sign was NOT appropriated into white power symbolism." That should take care of the first part of your post. Secondly, I didn't say the cop was racist. I said he threw a white power sign. He threw a white power sign at a black lives matter protest. There is very little chance he didn't know that sign couldn't possibly be misconstrued at a black lives matter protest. I certainly now have more insight about the fact that people have come to automatically think the OK sign is associated with the white power movement. This entire conversation proves they were successful in that effort. AND I agree, the cop certainly threw a signal that some have come to associate with white nationalism. That's all that can be said about it with the information provided in the video. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #106 June 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: There is very little chance he didn't know that sign couldn't possibly be misconstrued at a black lives matter protest. I don't remember hearing anything about it until today. I'm not a cop - so I haven't been briefed on all the signs for gangs though. I did use that symbol 4 or 5 times today - we are working on some layout over a 6 acre tract. My surveyor is Black - and about 400 yards away. I hope he inst insulted. He used that symbol MANY more times than I did, since he was the one behind the 20 second gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,460 #107 June 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, DJL said: I certainly now have more insight about the fact that people have come to automatically think the OK sign is associated with the white power movement. This entire conversation proves they were successful in that effort. AND I agree, the cop certainly threw a signal that some have come to associate with white nationalism. That's all that can be said about it with the information provided in the video. Well, there's a bit more than that. The cop looked pissed. At what? No clue. He flashed the 'OK' sign. Does he know it's a white power sign? He should. Really. Cops make a point of knowing as much as they can about 'secret signs'. Would making a sign that's commonly associated with white power at a BLM march be a bad idea? Yes. Should he have known that it would be misinterpreted? Yes. So either he did something really dumb, or something intentionally racist. I can see it going either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 201 #108 June 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: Well, there's a bit more than that. The cop looked pissed. At what? No clue. He flashed the 'OK' sign. Does he know it's a white power sign? He should. Really. Cops make a point of knowing as much as they can about 'secret signs'. Would making a sign that's commonly associated with white power at a BLM march be a bad idea? Yes. Should he have known that it would be misinterpreted? Yes. So either he did something really dumb, or something intentionally racist. I can see it going either way. Indeed. Cops have been doing stupid shit during this. I saw a vid where one was arresting a looter and was kneeling on his neck. You would think at this point there might have been some inter department memo stating they shouldn't do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,338 #109 June 2, 2020 2 hours ago, airdvr said: Stop! You're arguing with a man who believes he is intelligent enough to know everyone's intentions. Funny, the person you're replying to is the only one in this thread who has made any definitive statement about what the cop did or didn't mean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #110 June 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, airdvr said: I saw a vid where one was arresting a looter and was kneeling on his neck. In the one I saw another officer moved the cops knee off the looters neck. The first cop must not have got the memo that it was a bad idea. Or he just doesn't give a fuck and if that's the case he should not be a cop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #111 June 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, jakee said: Funny, the person you're replying to is the only one in this thread who has made any definitive statement about what the cop did or didn't mean. Me? I'm saying you can't definitively say what the cop was thinking or attempting. You have to do better than dogpiling on someone for every perceived insult. You become the mob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,286 #112 June 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, jakee said: Funny, the person you're replying to is the only one in this thread who has made any definitive statement about what the cop did or didn't mean. Logic isn't a strong suit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,286 #113 June 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, DJL said: Me? I'm saying you can't definitively say what the cop was thinking or attempting. You have to do better than dogpiling on someone for every perceived insult. You become the mob. Other than you started by definitively saying it wasn't white power related. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #114 June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Other than you started by definitively saying it wasn't white power related. You could argue that. I think it's FUCKING STUPID that people have allowed a bunch of internet trolls to successfully make a joke of how easy it is to get them to lose their shit over a symbol that had no racial association until they decided to troll people into thinking it had racial associations. So, in an Obi Wan Kenobi way I'll say that "in a manner of speaking" it did not because it should not. My black friend agrees with me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,286 #115 June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, DJL said: I think it's FUCKING STUPID that people have allowed a bunch of internet trolls to successfully make a joke of how easy it is to get them to lose their shit over a symbol that had no racial association until they decided to troll people into thinking it had racial associations. I think it got racial associations when white power groups started using it. I don't care where it originated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,338 #116 June 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, DJL said: Me? I'm saying you can't definitively say what the cop was thinking or attempting. You have to do better than dogpiling on someone for every perceived insult. You become the mob. Not to begin with. You very definitively said his gesture had nothing to do with white power. Several times. In ALL CAPS, for added emphasis. Seriously dude, you literally just acknowledged that exact point, it makes no sense to backtrack now. And I'm not dogpiling on you, I'm just pointing out to Airdvr that his post has nothing to do with what has actually been said and everything to do with who he feels he needs to disagree with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,338 #117 June 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, DJL said: You could argue that. I think it's FUCKING STUPID that people have allowed a bunch of internet trolls to successfully make a joke of how easy it is to get them to lose their shit over a symbol that had no racial association until they decided to troll people into thinking it had racial associations. Right, but once again, the people they trolled into thinking it was racist included racists. So now racists do use it to be racist. Yes it sucks, yes it's confusing, yes we should be very careful about making judgements based on it, but also yes, it now sometimes does mean white power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #118 June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, jakee said: Right, but once again, the people they trolled into thinking it was racist included racists. So now racists do use it to be racist. I wonder if everyone just started using it randomly would that take away it's racist meaning? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,713 #119 June 2, 2020 35 minutes ago, airdvr said: I saw a vid where one was arresting a looter and was kneeling on his neck. You would think at this point there might have been some inter department memo stating they shouldn't do that. Sadly it will probably take a lot more than a memo to make that happen. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #120 June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, jakee said: Seriously dude, you literally just acknowledged that exact point, it makes no sense to backtrack now. I acknowledge my backtrack, I just wish we did better on this one than concede that White Nationalist trolls can so easily manipulate people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #121 June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, jakee said: Right, but once again, the people they trolled into thinking it was racist included racists. So now racists do use it to be racist. Yes it sucks, yes it's confusing, yes we should be very careful about making judgements based on it, but also yes, it now sometimes does mean white power. By the way, I'm also not happy about the "Don't Tread on Me" Flag being appropriated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #122 June 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, jakee said: And I'm not dogpiling on you, I'm just pointing out to Airdvr that his post has nothing to do with what has actually been said and everything to do with who he feels he needs to disagree with. I meant dogpiling on the cop. Again, to me it's laughable that this is the automatic reaction to someone giving the OK sign unless it's clear that the context is about racism. I did find an article about another cop who was using it to that effect and played stupid but then they found alt-right crap all over his own FB page to include use of the OK sign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #123 June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Rick said: In the one I saw another officer moved the cops knee off the looters neck. The first cop must not have got the memo that it was a bad idea. Or he just doesn't give a fuck and if that's the case he should not be a cop. Or - its ingrained training and muscle memory. Imagine if all of a sudden all rigs had their reserve handle and cutaway swapped with each other. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #124 June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DJL said: You could argue that. I think it's FUCKING STUPID that people have allowed a bunch of internet trolls to successfully make a joke of how easy it is to get them to lose their shit over a symbol that had no racial association until they decided to troll people into thinking it had racial associations. So, in an Obi Wan Kenobi way I'll say that "in a manner of speaking" it did not because it should not. My black friend agrees with me. *Cough* . . . from a certain point of view. *cough* In Return of the Jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi tells Luke Skywalker, "what I told you was true, from a certain point of view. [Y]ou're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." I'm a nerd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 723 #125 June 2, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, airdvr said: Indeed. Cops have been doing stupid shit during this. I saw a vid where one was arresting a looter and was kneeling on his neck. You would think at this point there might have been some inter department memo stating they shouldn't do that. In most states, it already is in memo form to not do that, it's against their policy. Edited June 2, 2020 by normiss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites