National protests against Minneapolis police murderers?

[normiss 723]

Can we have a serious discussion regarding this?

This looks to be the camel's straw event.

Personally, I believe black people have had ENOUGH. I also think there is some white racists involved in contributing to the flames stoking the event and the responses.

I  feel the American leadership and law enforcement military response is a reallllly bad idea.
It feels like they honestly want a violent confrontation.
If we were to put 3 more murdering cops in jail, could we create a mutual conversation place to start?
Something tells me that's not where this is going.
Nor is it something American leadership wants.
The message they're sending is that they're doubling down on institutional racism.
are some committed to destroying America?

Buckle up bitches

 

I felt the need to start a new thread without a warning of racism, while also not really reading all of the content of the racist thread because I can't do turtle trolls.

Edited May 31, 2020 by normiss
.

[nigel99 288]

Pretty scary times for you guys. But not totally unexpected when you’ve got a president who whips up division and hatred. I think it shows a huge amount of pent up frustration and anger in the people.

Welcome to the banana republic of America. 

[gowlerk 2,095]

In 1968 racial tensions and fear of black uprisings were a large factor in the election of Nixon, who played on white fears, over Humphrey. Look for confrontation to be encouraged and for "law and order" to become a thing.

[billvon 2,720]

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

Pretty scary times for you guys. But not totally unexpected when you’ve got a president who whips up division and hatred.

Looks like Trump got the "shooting" he was tweeting about.

[headoverheels 328]

 

 

[nigel99 288]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Looks like Trump got the "shooting" he was tweeting about.

Serious question. Aren’t these protests precisely why so many Americans site the 2nd Amendment? I half expected more armed rioting? Or is 2nd amendment fanatism more a white thing? It seems that the protests are against the authorities 

[Phil1111 1,077]

5 hours ago, nigel99 said:

Serious question. Aren’t these protests precisely why so many Americans site the 2nd Amendment? I half expected more armed rioting? Or is 2nd amendment fanatism more a white thing? It seems that the protests are against the authorities 

The 2nd is a white only provision. The Black submission amendment is #12.

[Phil1111 1,077]

7 hours ago, normiss said:

Can we have a serious discussion regarding this?...

If we were to put 3 more murdering cops in jail, could we create a mutual conversation place to start?...

This juries and the courts need to stop the benefit of doubt to LE when unarmed suspects are injured subsequent to arrest. A blue wall of silence should have ended when cameras entered the equation. It didn't.

[wmw999 2,311]

Policing is one of those real-time-decision jobs where there has to be some leeway for acceptance of decisions made with insufficient evidence; the same is true for the military, parenting, medicine -- any of the "decision when it's needed, not when you have all the information" stuff. 

It's why these are generally covered by review boards, not by the law, for first-level infractions. But this "thin blue line" stuff is going too far. It's taking, effectively, team and party loyalty to a greater level, and making some people more equal than others. 

Wendy P.

[kallend 1,822]

33 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Policing is one of those real-time-decision jobs where there has to be some leeway for acceptance of decisions made with insufficient evidence; the same is true for the military, parenting, medicine -- any of the "decision when it's needed, not when you have all the information" stuff. 

It's why these are generally covered by review boards, not by the law, for first-level infractions. But this "thin blue line" stuff is going too far. It's taking, effectively, team and party loyalty to a greater level, and making some people more equal than others. 

Wendy P.

A look at the GINI index shows that some are definitely more equal than others.  The US sits among 3rd world nations, which is really unacceptable for the richest  nation on Earth.
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SI.POV.GINI/rankings

[Phil1111 1,077]

51 minutes ago, kallend said:

A look at the GINI index shows that some are definitely more equal than others.  The US sits among 3rd world nations, which is really unacceptable for the richest  nation on Earth.
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SI.POV.GINI/rankings

Mark would not like the fact that the US is 1.5 % less equal than Iran. On the other hand Ron would be happy that the US is 1.5% more equal than Nigeria and Uganda.

"Income inequality has reached its highest level in at least 50 years, according to new U.S. government data released today, underscoring a key theme for Democratic candidates hoping to unseat President Donald trump.

Although the economy has been growing above 2 percent annually under trump, the data from the Census Bureau suggest the benefits of that growth are disproportionately flowing to Americans with higher incomes, feeding a steady multidecade trend."

and there is rioting, who'd have thunk it?

MAGA

[SivaGanesha 2]

8 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Policing is one of those real-time-decision jobs where there has to be some leeway for acceptance of decisions made with insufficient evidence;

 

Agreed but if those real time decisions evince underlying priorities that are seriously screwed, then something needs to change.

 

AFAIK George Floyd was accused of nothing more than using a $20 counterfeit bill--a relatively minor crime. I have no idea whether he was innocent or guilty of the original accused crime--and he is no longer around to defend himself from any criminal charges. But it should never happen that the arrest of someone charged with such a minor crime results in anyone's death--be that the detainee, a law enforcement officer, or a bystander. It is better--much better--that the suspect simply get away than there be a death over something so minor. When such minor charges escalate into death, something is very very wrong with the underlying priorities that are driving the real time decisions.

 

Now it is different when more serious crimes are alleged. If we are talking about the Boston Marathon bombing, then it was reasonable for law enforcement to take some risk of death both for themselves and for the suspects they were attempting to apprehend. As it turned out, one police officer as well as one suspect did perish, and the other suspect was seriously hurt before hiding in a boat and eventually being arrested.

 

But something is very wrong when these minor accused crimes--often, it seems, involving a black suspect--escalate into something so tragic. If the arrest cannot be done safely, then it should not be done at all. This case was especially egregious since it seems most of the severe brutality took place after Floyd was already handcuffed and, I presume, no longer a significant threat.

 

A review of any real time decision making needs to include learning and, if needed, changing the policies that were guiding the decision making. It is hard for me to imagine any reasonable policy leading to the real time behavior we've seen in these officers, especially the one who physically restrained Floyd. The fact that we don't typically see such things happen in other wealthy countries--many of which are also becoming quite racially diverse like the USA--means that we shouldn't accept such things as unavoidable.

 

I also believe that, given that this happened in the covid-19 era, this incident has resulted in protests which have put the whole country at greater risk of a new spike of covid-19 cases. As such I believe that Derek Chauvin should face federal treason charges carrying the death penalty. And I'm someone who is generally opposed to the death penalty. Chauvin should face state murder charges--life without parole--for the murder of Floyd but federal treason charges--death penalty--for jeopardizing the country's recovery from covid-19.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by SivaGanesha

[airdvr 201]

6 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Income inequality has reached its highest level in at least 50 years, according to new U.S. government data released today, underscoring a key theme for Democratic candidates hoping to unseat President Donald trump.

I guess I don't understand how that could be if the dems have been doing such a great job since 1965.

[Phil1111 1,077]

9 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I guess I don't understand how that could be if the dems have been doing such a great job since 1965.

"Virtually everyone outside the Trump administration agrees that the GOP tax plans passed by the House and the Senate will aggravate income inequality. In fact, the party-line votes on both plans are the latest instance of a remarkable fact: Over the last 40 years, income inequality has accelerated when Republicans held the White House, the Congress or both, and slowed when Democrats were in charge."

Read, learn and understand.

[JerryBaumchen 1,260]

18 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Read, learn and understand.

Hi Phil,

You ask too much.

Jerry Baumchen

[turtlespeed 212]

12 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

You ask too much.

Jerry Baumchen

Especially from those that already have their mind made up and will not ever be flexible.

[turtlespeed 212]

Here is more riot material left for the taking:

BUT - I don't know of any incidents at that location - 

Edited May 31, 2020 by turtlespeed

[kallend 1,822]

44 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Here is more riot material left for the taking:

BUT - I don't know of any incidents at that location - 

 

I have a pile of decorative rocks in my front yard.  I was planning to use them to make a rock garden but now I expect I'll be accused of preparing to riot by someone like The Turtle.

[Phil1111 1,077]

59 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

You ask too much.

Jerry Baumchen

That is a sad statement on the civic obligation.

[yoink 321]

2 hours ago, SivaGanesha said:

I also believe that, given that this happened in the covid-19 era, this incident has resulted in protests which have put the whole country at greater risk of a new spike of covid-19 cases. As such I believe that Derek Chauvin should face federal treason charges carrying the death penalty. And I'm someone who is generally opposed to the death penalty. Chauvin should face state murder charges--life without parole--for the murder of Floyd but federal treason charges--death penalty--for jeopardizing the country's recovery from covid-19.

 

Wow... That’s a hell of a leap. And a pretty much unprovable one I suspect. 
For which you’d kill a guy.

[turtlespeed 212]

34 minutes ago, kallend said:

 

I have a pile of decorative rocks in my front yard.  I was planning to use them to make a rock garden but now I expect I'll be accused of preparing to riot by someone like The Turtle.

Dallas is instituting a curfew because of the brick that were dropped of on multiple corners.

Are you saying you live in Dallas now?  Not South Chicago?

[JoeWeber 2,561]

53 minutes ago, kallend said:

 

I have a pile of decorative rocks in my front yard.  I was planning to use them to make a rock garden but now I expect I'll be accused of preparing to riot by someone like The Turtle.

The right to peaceably assemble and throw tear gas canisters back at the police is something we shouldn't give up easily. 

[turtlespeed 212]

20 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

The right to peaceably assemble and throw tear gas canisters back at the police is something we shouldn't give up easily. 

Is the peaceful part where the bricks get thrown first or the bottles first before the teargas is deployed, I don't remember.

 

[JoeWeber 2,561]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

Is the peaceful part where the bricks get thrown first or the bottles first before the teargas is deployed, I don't remember.

 

That's because you weren't there, son. You're a keyboard protestor with non-stop opinions about everything. Did you ever get that Lab? No? Well there's still time.

[billvon 2,720]

5 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Is the peaceful part where the bricks get thrown first or the bottles first before the teargas is deployed, I don't remember

No, no.  It's where the "very fine people" murder protesters by driving into them.  Gotta keep up.