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markharju

The Dunning-Kruger Effect and the Bizarre World of Fake Martial Arts

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Posted (edited)

This is one of the better summations of fake martial arts that I've seen on YouTube. There are lots of shows about the fakers on YouTube but this "Proper, Stiff-Upper Lip British Chap" (TM) is the only presenter whom I have seen so far who not only makes the usual contrasts and comparisons between what we perhaps think of as traditional or classical martial arts (e.g., Kung Fu, Ju-Jitsu, etc), but also mentions military CQB including Krav Maga, which isn't for sparring or for street fighting, but for killing or otherwise permanently disabling one's opponent as quickly and efficiently as possible, and how although Krav Maga  / CQB is highly effective, it's not a good idea on the street due to its sheer lethality and the legal consequences which could stem from it.

He also doesn't shirk from discussing the most effective of all means for ending a fight - scarpering.

We see a lot of exciting action scenes in our entertainment (and then perhaps wonder why our culture is so violent, but I digress) such as the brilliant material in the Keanu Reeves John Wick series, but this presenter really points out that it's all Hollyweird BS.

He then gets to the meat and bones of his talk when he discusses Mixed Martial Arts (and this presenter doesn't mention him, but I agree with some observers that Bruce Lee was the grandfather of MMA in that he was the first to learn a lot of different disciplines and fighting styles, keeping what worked in the real world of the streets of Hing Kong where he grew up, and make them into something completely new. Lee was branded a heretic for this by the classical masters and it caused more than one confrontation, but time has proved his philosophy to be right).

The final part is some of the cringeworthy fake martial arts stuff, which makes one want to laugh and feel sad at the same time. There's also something perversely satisfying about watching the phony "masters" get their clocks cleaned by real MMA scrappers. The presenter does not mention Dunning-Kruger, so I'll do so here: it's the classic case of selling your BS to others, and ending up believing it yourself. It's the psychology behind Manson, Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the countless others who exploit the weak-minded for their own gain.

The other one is a short clip from Joe Rogan, who's a funny guy but when you watch him train - Wow.

 

Edited by markharju

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Ah yes, the ancient art of bullshido. I've watched several videos exposing fake martial arts and many were pretty cringy. It's amazing how much effort and training can go into something that is completely at odds with reality. I think it speaks to the uncanny ability we humans have to convince ourselves of anything. If you want some entertainment check out Charlie Z, the underground boxing world champion.

 Thoughty2 is a pretty cool channel too. He did a video on global pandemics literally one month before the Covid outbreak.

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4 hours ago, murps2000 said:

 I think it speaks to the uncanny ability we humans have to convince ourselves of anything.

Like, say, that the highly unnatural act of willingly egressing from an operational, serviceable aircraft while it is in flight is a good idea. ;P

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"More than sport, fighting, or self-defense, the martial arts are first and foremost about life. About finding what is at the essence of your own being and expressing that essence. The martial arts are also about art. ”To be a martial artist means to be an artist of life,” Bruce Lee once said

Your entire premise is that fighting alone determines martial skill. When those who have studied the arts will tell you that to win by not fighting, is the essence of the arts.

The reference to Hollywood B.S. is correct. Naturally the gun-fighting scenes of most movies take serious liberties with reality. If you shoot allot the tremendous training to shoot accurately with a handgun becomes evident. Especially so as distance increases.

With a rifle a solid continuous stock cheek weld with eyes, sights and target in perfect alignment together with a calm trigger release is necessary. Either with a rifle or handgun competition ranks your abilities. Real field competitions.

Since the majority of your post references martial arts, lets stick to that. The best scene in martial arts illustrating the absolute mastery of fighting is this.   Don't confuse ego, money, the desire of some to create business from the martial arts. The Hollywoodization of fighting with martial arts. With MMA as it exists today. Where the entire class is spent on technique alone.

One individual in a ring with the emphasis on a fight doesn't define a art. Just as an impressionist painting isn't necessarily a master.

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On 5/22/2020 at 6:09 AM, markharju said:

The presenter does not mention Dunning-Kruger, so I'll do so here: it's the classic case of selling your BS to others, and ending up believing it yourself.

Sorta puzzled by this.  Of course it's BS.  So is everything else in movies.  Skydiving, flying, driving, marksmanship, science, medicine - stunts and plot contrivances are done for the sake of a movie that sells well, not to make any attempt at reality.  The _only_ attempts made to align with reality is to the degree that people won't walk out of the theater in disgust or confusion; if that 747 levitates vertically and then flies away, people are going to be confused and annoyed, because in their experience that doesn't happen.  But if the pilots try to avoid disaster by pulling back as hard as they can on the yoke, to crash only because they couldn't pull hard enough?  That sells movies.

And of course people think their area of expertise makes them an expert.  That's how they sell themselves.

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:09 PM, markharju said:

We see a lot of exciting action scenes in our entertainment (and then perhaps wonder why our culture is so violent, but I digress) such as the brilliant material in the Keanu Reeves John Wick series, but this presenter really points out that it's all Hollyweird BS.

Um, yeah?

I mean, you'll find more people who believe the earth is flat or that all the churches in Edinburgh are mosques than think John Wick contains real fighting.

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On 5/22/2020 at 8:09 AM, markharju said:

This is one of the better summations of fake martial arts that I've seen on YouTube. There are lots of shows about the fakers on YouTube but this "Proper, Stiff-Upper Lip British Chap" (TM)

. . . . .

 

He also doesn't shirk from discussing the most effective of all means for ending a fight - scarpering.

 

Wrong accent to be a "proper" chap.  More like a Bloody Northerner..

 

Better than scarpering to end a fight is being alert and perceptive enough to avoid a fight in the first place.

 

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6 hours ago, kallend said:

Better than scarpering to end a fight is being alert and perceptive enough to avoid a fight in the first place.

 

True, and well said. I'm a big fan of Marc MacYoung, who is imo the best in the business because he devotes a huge amount of his indoctrination to this very concept. https://nononsenseselfdefense.com/

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I didn't get the impression that the OP meant Hollywood when starting this thread, and much of the content I have come across with regard to fake, or at best real but completely ineffective martial arts had nothing to do with movies. It's usually been more of that death touch or chi -channeling type of stuff, which definitely requires some faith on the part of one's opponent. Still, this video is in the same vein, and certainly a good example of belief vs reality. Pretty funny too if you catch the Gene Lebell story.

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(edited)
10 hours ago, markharju said:

True, and well said. I'm a big fan of Marc MacYoung, who is imo the best in the business because he devotes a huge amount of his indoctrination to this very concept. https://nononsenseselfdefense.com/

After a two hour read online from probably two dozen sites. I can find nothing of substance about Mr. MacYoung. There doesn't appear to be any biography of his education in martial arts. Except for what he promotes about himself. He claims that all martial arts are self promoting, self enriching scams of no real self defense value.

Yet he claims to have the answers to all self defense situations himself. Through his training seminars, his books, his advice. He has no documented skills but what he claims himself arose from his personal fights on mean streets.

"Don't piss people off',  'don't be a victim', if you get into a fight, its your fault. So the best remedy is to run as fast as you can. If you can't run, everything is a weapon, use that weapon. If you fight to win, using every available weapon,every striking point and his exclusive techniques. Any attacker or trained martial artist has no chance.

He provides proof of his abilities claimed in his "expert witness" list.  Yet searches of those named actions within those states of those cases produced no results. i.e. those legal matters don't seem to exist.

The quotes from the aforementioned expert witness list like "New York vs. Vincent Scotto 2016 (Knife, violence reconstruction)" etc. Would read as if the DA of the state of New York. Brought into court Mr. Marc "Animal" Mac Young. as he evidently prefers to be addressed by. Without either education by a law enforcement agency, or professional training body. Except for his own of course. To testify about "violence reconstruction".

Think about it and that list of cases he offers. "Violence reconstruction". What does he presume the courts deal with, DA's think, most felony cases are about. Presumably the "mean streets" gave him a diploma in "Violence reconstruction" like a decade of FBI training and a forensic science degree from a college.

"Violence reconstruction", better known as Fake news.

Just too bad i can't get those two hours back.

Edited by Phil1111

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