A serious preponderance about Trump and Covid-19

[turtlespeed 212]

4 minutes ago, jakee said:

No, I want to know what you really think, not what your 'argue with libs at all costs' reflex drives you to say.

So we should be giving him credit for positive ways in which he has faced the Coronavirus threat that wouldn't have happened if not for him specifically... but you don't know what any of them are?

You shouldn't be doing anything.

You can give credit wherever you want.  If Trump says he deserves the credit, then decide for yourself if he does.  That's what I do.

As far as not knowing - I don't obsess about all the details that you do.

I just don't really care all that much.

Edited May 7, 2020 by turtlespeed

[turtlespeed 212]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Nope.

We want you to say that this came unexpectedly and the US needed a good leader in a time of crisis. If he succeeded and got it under control, he would have earned a landslide reelection and I would be happy with that. But he failed, failed spectacularly, and has now given up trying to control it. Americans will pay the price.

Yet here you are saying "he made a few mistakes".

Its the truth. He has made mistakes.  Those are ALL that will be focused on.

[jakee 1,254]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

You shouldn't be doing anything.

You can give credit wherever you want.  If Trump says he deserves the credit, then decide for yourself if he does.  That's what I do.

And yet this whole thread is nothing but an excuse for you to throw a massive insult at all the people who have decided for themselves that he has not done a very good job and deserves to take blame for it.

 

So when you're actually saying "Give credit wherever you want, but if you don't I'm going to call you a horrible person who secretly delights in the deaths of thousands" it comes off soundng slightly less magnanimous than you want to appear right now, no?

Quote

As far as not knowing - I don't obsess about all the details that you do.

I just don't really care all that much.

So there we have another problem - if you don't pay attention, why do you keep arguing with people who do and insisting that they're wrong and you're right? How do you know?

If you don't care about whether things are being done well, why do you need to insult the people who do?

And if you pay attention to the details, why do you assume the worst of those who do and then make judgements based on them? On what basis do you assume that their judgements are based on hate and not on what the information says when you don't know what the information says?

[jakee 1,254]

8 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Its the truth. He has made mistakes.  Those are ALL that will be focused on.

In the absence of having done anything uniquely good, that's pretty much as it should be. 

 

Take the UK, because it has such a clear example. By the time the virus took hold here there was already ample evidence on the table regarding how it spread and lockdown measures had already been implemented on scientific advice in sevral other countries. The UK government decided to go a copletely different way and use some weak social distancing methods and aim for herd immunity. After a week they realised that was bollocks and introduced a lockdown similar to most other european nations. Problem is, in that week the modelling shows the spread of the virus had time to explode from where it was, and it's a big reason why our numbers are as bad as they are now. 

 

So when we go back over what happened should we pat BoJo on the back and say 'well done for finally following the same advice everyone else had in the same way everyone else did' or should we be asking 'what the fuck were you thinking not following that advice in the first place'?

 

TL:DR, remember the Chris Rock sketch about n****s and black people? You don't need to give people credit for stuff they were supposed to do. There is a minimum standard that the government is supposed to live up to in these situations, otherwise what are they even for? So if people can point to instances where Trump's words and actions have fallen short of that standard, and you can't point to any specific instances where he has exceeded it then why do you think you can tell anyone it's wrong to be focussing on the mistakes?

[turtlespeed 212]

36 minutes ago, jakee said:

So if people can point to instances where Trump's words and actions have fallen short of that standard, and you can't point to any specific instances where he has exceeded it then why do you think you can tell anyone it's wrong to be focussing on the mistakes?

Great argument.  It is leading in a lot of ways, and assumes that one must agree with you completely.  You make assumptions, and are not using all the possibilities as to why a point hasn't been brought to more specific instances.

Anyway - Do we agree that there is a difference between focusing on a mistake and aggrandizing it?

Do you see the difference between these two statements?

1) Trump signs Coronavirus relief bill for over $2T, amid concerns from both sides of the political aisle.

and 

2) The Orange Cheeto looking POS POTUS screwed the taxpayers out of more money.

It is the embellishment, petty name calling, and condescension that leans me more to be one sided than I would be normally.

That has been stated before and is no less true now than it was then.

 

 

[kallend 1,623]

4 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

 

Anyway - Do we agree that there is a difference between focusing on a mistake and aggrandizing it?

 

 

 

When dealing with exponential growth, the aggrandizement is built in to the mistake.

Trump dithered, delayed, denied, and FUCKED UP. Thousands are paying the ultimate price for it.. 

[jakee 1,254]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Great argument.  It is leading in a lot of ways, and assumes that one must agree with you completely.  You make assumptions, and are not using all the possibilities as to why a point hasn't been brought to more specific instances.

But see above. I asked you why you couldn't point to specific instances and you said you don't know them because you don't pay enough attention. I'm not making assumptions, I'm listening to what you tell me. If what you're telling me isn't the case, thats your problem.

Quote

It is the embellishment, petty name calling, and condescension that leans me more to be one sided than I would be normally.

Irrelevant. You defend him whether he is being called names or not.

You see embellishment everywhere, and where there is none you invent it. You claim the media saying Trump instructed people to inject themselves with bleach pushes you further to the right, when in fact it's your own right wing tendencies that push you to create the lie that the media said Trump instructed people to inject themselves with bleach.

Until now this thread has not been about name calling or condescension but bout overly focusing on mistakes. Funny how the goalposts feel like they're starting to move...

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

Nope.

We want you to say that this came unexpectedly and the US needed a good leader in a time of crisis. If he succeeded and got it under control, he would have earned a landslide reelection and I would be happy with that. But he failed, failed spectacularly, and has now given up trying to control it. Americans will pay the price.

Yet here you are saying "he made a few mistakes".

It's kind of funny. 

Trump's approval ratings went up a few points as this crisis unfolded, despite his clear incompetence.

That wasn't all that surprising. Approval ratings of the Pres always go up during a crisis. GWB saw huge increases in the fall of 2001. 

The 'funny' part is how small the approval increases for Trump were. And that they've gone away already.
 

[Phil1111 910]

10 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

It's kind of funny. 

Trump's approval ratings went up a few points as this crisis unfolded, despite his clear incompetence.

That wasn't all that surprising. Approval ratings of the Pres always go up during a crisis. GWB saw huge increases in the fall of 2001. 

The 'funny' part is how small the approval increases for Trump were. And that they've gone away already.
 

In the first national survey asking voters about the allegations, Joe Biden widened his lead over President Trump in a head-to-head matchup that has continued to grow in the last couple of months.

Currently a nine point lead, up from a four point lead from the "rally around the president post C-19 bump. I'm surprised Biden hasn't been more aggressive in active campaigning. But the strategy of just giving trump more and more rope for the hangman's knot. Seems to be working well. Just too bad the rope is made from the lives of 1,000 Americans every day.

Rough math is that every 30,000 Americans that trump kills costs him five percentage points in election polling. But I seem to recall that he once bragged about killing Americans and getting away with it. Or was it that his popularity wouldn't fall?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

So we should be giving him credit for positive ways in which he has faced the Coronavirus threat that wouldn't have happened if not for him specifically... but you don't know what any of them are?

I swear I really didn't vote for him and I am totally unbiased and treat Democrats and Republicans the same. You should see how kind I was to Obama and Clinton.

I mean the incredible vitriol and hatred directed at Obama for trying to get people healthcare, compared to the absolutely forgiveness for Trump's handling of tens of thousands of dead is quite telling.

[kallend 1,623]

26 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

I swear I really didn't vote for him and I am totally unbiased and treat Democrats and Republicans the same. You should see how kind I was to Obama and Clinton.

I mean the incredible vitriol and hatred directed at Obama for trying to get people healthcare, compared to the absolutely forgiveness for Trump's handling of tens of thousands of dead is quite telling.

Just yesterday Trump moved to totally eliminate the ACA, thus depriving millions more Americans of healthcare coverage in the midst of a pandemic.

[jakee 1,254]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:15 PM, turtlespeed said:

I wonder how many anti-Trumpers out there are actually thankful for Covid-19.

Hey look, here's a guy stating he's loving the chance to attack people he disagrees with that the Coronavirus situation has provided. What do you have to say to him?

[DJL 232]

13 hours ago, jakee said:

Do you think he's made any policy mistakes or damaging statements that undermine the collective Covid response?

 

Do you think he has done any positive things that have materially helped the US response that wouldn't have been done by any other President?

His actions and delivery of information neither improved economic health nor slowed the disease's spread.