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turtlespeed

A serious preponderance about Trump and Covid-19

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9 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

And that would still be attributed to him in some way of you could.

I asked a serious question, though.

I think I’ve figured you out. You like Trump a lot. He represents your world view and the reason you don’t have a problem with his racist and misogynistic viewpoints is that they are aligned with your core beliefs.

But you’re not stupid and you know that wider society still finds those views to be wrong. So you dress it up and find every excuse you can as to why the ‘other’ candidate is worse than Trump. You use that to rationalise your position.
 

You don’t even have the moral conviction to own your beliefs and viewpoints, at least Ron does that. 

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12 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I think he had done things that could have been done better.

What do you think could have been done better? 

 

What do you think he did well that wouldn't have been done by any other President?

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24 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

And that would still be attributed to him in some way of you could.

I asked a serious question, though.

It's a serious answer. Well, I have to change it to 255 - that's how many have died in South Korea so far.

But if you're going to say again that US can't do what South Korea did, you can compare against New Zealand. Much more similar culture. Better leadership - only 21 died there.

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42 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

And that would still be attributed to him in some way of you could.

Now you're just assuming.

If you think nigel99 doesn't have you figured out, you're making assumptions yourself.

If Trump performed perfectly then yes I'd be impressed and will actually be thankful. But "he could have done better" when the death toll is approaching that of Hiroshima is a bit of an understatement.

  • Taiwan: 6
  • South Korea: 255
  • New Zealand: 21
  • USA: 70,000+

Looks like the US has a "few more deaths" and "could have done better".

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51 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I think he had done things that could have been done better.

It's not black on white.

It kind of is.

Let me ask you this to demonstrate:

What is the official US policy?

  1. To eventually rid the US of COVID-19 (Testing, contact tracing etc)
  2. To gradually expose you all, with COVID-19 becoming endemic (herd immunity)

 

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16 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

It kind of is.

Let me ask you this to demonstrate:

What is the official US policy?

  1. To eventually rid the US of COVID-19 (Testing, contact tracing etc)
  2. To gradually expose you all, with COVID-19 becoming endemic (herd immunity)

 

You ask this assuming that there IS an 'official policy'.

Assuming Trump has any plan other than 'get re-elected'.

Assuming he actually pays any attention to briefings or documents.

That's pretty naieve. 
He'd have to have some level of care or concern for anything or anyone other than himself for that to happen.Anyone including the citizens of the country. Anything including the country itself.

I've seen zero evidence of either of those.

 

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17 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

You ask this assuming that there IS an 'official policy'.

Assuming Trump has any plan other than 'get re-elected'.

Assuming he actually pays any attention to briefings or documents.

That's pretty naieve. 
He'd have to have some level of care or concern for anything or anyone other than himself for that to happen.Anyone including the citizens of the country. Anything including the country itself.

I've seen zero evidence of either of those.

 

This is the policy.

Trump backs off plans to wind down task force after backlash

Trump blocked Anthony Fauci, a key member of the task force, from testifying at a House hearing Wednesday

Because the  “House is a bunch of Trump haters."

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

You ask this assuming that there IS an 'official policy'.

No. I ask this question to indicate to Turtle that it is indeed "black on white". The fact that all these months in the US does not have a clearly defined policy and strategy is a very clear sign of the tremendous failure of the Trump administration. It is very "black on white".

 

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25 minutes ago, jakee said:

What do you think could have been done better? 

 

What do you think he did well that wouldn't have been done by any other President?

Generally,

He has a problem with speaking his whims and doesn't have a filter.

He could definitely communicate better.

He makes rash decisions and refuses some of the better council of his staff.

He's really rough around the edges and not a politician, and he would be better served if he cared.

He could better admit that he doesn't know, and doesn't know what he doesn't know.

 

Specifically to Covid - 

He could better communicate, not as often, and prepare his statements and stick to them.

He should be better at letting his staff do their jobs, and quit trying to singlehandedly be the superhero.

 

 

 

 

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(edited)
2 hours ago, olofscience said:
  • Taiwan: 6
  • South Korea: 255
  • New Zealand: 21
  • USA: 70,000+

Looks like the US has a "few more deaths" and "could have done better".

Ok so if the USA did as good as Taiwan we'd have like 83 deaths.

If the USA did as good as South Korea we'd have like 1619 deaths.

If the USA did as good as New Zealand we'd have like 1377 deaths.

If the USA did as good as the United Kingdom we'd have like 140,000+ deaths.

Edited by Coreece

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The irony of this thread's initial premise is that it acknowledges right off the bat that Trump's handling of this crisis has been absolute dogshit and may damage his re-election chances.

This was a perfect opportunity for him to rise to the challenge and actually show the world he can do the job he was elected to do - and if he'd done that, he'd have secured another term with ease.

Regarding the question posed in the OP - I'm not happy that he's fucked up the response, because I have friends and family all across the US who are at risk from his inactions and I'm not a psychopath.

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7 hours ago, Coreece said:

Ok so if the USA did as good as Taiwan we'd have like 83 deaths.

If the USA did as good as South Korea we'd have like 1619 deaths.

If the USA did as good as New Zealand we'd have like 1377 deaths.

If the USA did as good as the United Kingdom we'd have like 140,000+ deaths.

Indeed.  BoJo made the same mistakes Trump did.  The exponential function is very unforgiving.

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7 hours ago, Coreece said:

Ok so if the USA did as good as Taiwan we'd have like 83 deaths.

If the USA did as good as South Korea we'd have like 1619 deaths.

If the USA did as good as New Zealand we'd have like 1377 deaths.

If the USA did as good as the United Kingdom we'd have like 140,000+ deaths.

And I will say the UK fucked up ROYALLY. An absolute disgrace and our idiot Prime Minister almost died from it himself.

But Turtle is still saying "Trump could have done a few things better".

See the difference?

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8 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Specifically to Covid - 

He could better communicate, not as often, and prepare his statements and stick to them.

He should be better at letting his staff do their jobs, and quit trying to singlehandedly be the superhero.

Do you think he's made any policy mistakes or damaging statements that undermine the collective Covid response?

 

Do you think he has done any positive things that have materially helped the US response that wouldn't have been done by any other President?

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32 minutes ago, olofscience said:

... our idiot Prime Minister almost died from it himself.

That is overstating his illness by quite a bit.  Had it been you or me, we would not have been sent to the ICU.  We would have been given oxygen, as was he, in a regular hospital room.

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3 minutes ago, headoverheels said:

That is overstating his illness by quite a bit.  Had it been you or me, we would not have been sent to the ICU.  We would have been given oxygen, as was he, in a regular hospital room.

He himself has admitted that the doctors were 50-50 about putting him on a ventilator. He needed "litres and litres of oxygen".

Anyway this is off-topic. This is about a death toll approaching Hiroshima's that is being described as "sure, Trump could have done a few things better"...

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3 hours ago, jakee said:

Do you think he's made any policy mistakes or damaging statements that undermine the collective Covid response?

 

Do you think he has done any positive things that have materially helped the US response that wouldn't have been done by any other President?

Sure, he has made mistakes. Sure he has made ignorant statements.  Undermine?  In the sense that if he has affected a system that effects even one person negatively, then sure.  Any change to any system will cause that.  I think you are wanting me to say that he has done immense harm and completely undermined the system.  It just isn't black on white, like you would want an admission to.

I'm sure there are things he has done that a different President wouldn't have, and it worked out.  I don't micro manage his day to days, so I really wouldn't know.

Nothing really stands out.  

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3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I think you are wanting me to say that he has done immense harm and completely undermined the system. 

No, I want to know what you really think, not what your 'argue with libs at all costs' reflex drives you to say.

Quote

I'm sure there are things he has done that a different President wouldn't have, and it worked out.  I don't micro manage his day to days, so I really wouldn't know.

So we should be giving him credit for positive ways in which he has faced the Coronavirus threat that wouldn't have happened if not for him specifically... but you don't know what any of them are?

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2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I think you are wanting me to say that he has done immense harm and completely undermined the system.

Nope.

We want you to say that this came unexpectedly and the US needed a good leader in a time of crisis. If he succeeded and got it under control, he would have earned a landslide reelection and I would be happy with that. But he failed, failed spectacularly, and has now given up trying to control it. Americans will pay the price.

Yet here you are saying "he made a few mistakes".

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