Pity for the USA

[jakee 1,254]

41 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Actually its a Kenyan brand of candy.

https://thechocolatebar.co.ke/

Trump puts Kenyan candy on his face and you're saying it's immoral to make fun of that? 

 

You are a strange man.

[jakee 1,254]

47 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Umm no - that's a double standanrd, whether your want to believe it or not.

Yes, equating making fun of someone's makeup with racism is a double standard.

Quote

The reason the thing came up about his birth is because you have to be a natural born citizen to be president.

He is and always was absolutely and undoubtedly a natural born citizen, just like every other presidential candidate. The reason it was brought up for him and none of the others is because he's black.

Quote

People choose the physical characteristics of Trump as a way to dehumanize him, like they did the Jews in the late 30's and early 40's.

Being orange is not a physical characteristic of Trump. That's not his real skin. Furthermore, the class of people who are really bad at personal styling is not going to be found alongside any protected class such as those of Jewish descent. Being black is, yet you seem to have no problem with the attempts made to make Obama seem un-American because he was black. You should do something about that double standard before it starts looking too ugly on you.

[turtlespeed 212]

25 minutes ago, jakee said:

Yes, equating making fun of someone's makeup with racism is a double standard.

He is and always was absolutely and undoubtedly a natural born citizen, just like every other presidential candidate. The reason it was brought up for him and none of the others is because he's black.

Being orange is not a physical characteristic of Trump. That's not his real skin. Furthermore, the class of people who are really bad at personal styling is not going to be found alongside any protected class such as those of Jewish descent. Being black is, yet you seem to have no problem with the attempts made to make Obama seem un-American because he was black. You should do something about that double standard before it starts looking too ugly on you.

As always, we disagree.

[jakee 1,254]

9 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

As always, we disagree.

What exactly do you disagree with? Are you saying that Obama isn't definitely a natural born citizen or that Trump is naturally that colour?

 

Either way it's a pretty extreme length to go to just so you can pick an argument. That you're happy to associate with the racist fringe rather than be on the same side of anything as me is quite telling.

[Coreece 189]

34 minutes ago, jakee said:

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

I think it was moreso because his father was from Kenya, converted to Islam and changed his name to Hussein.

I highly doubt it, because of the three things you just said two of them are not true.

Ah, my bad.  Apparently that was his grandfather.

 

38 minutes ago, jakee said:

Also, recall that Obama Sr left when Barack was 3. Not really much of a basis for making assumptions on his religion

I think it was all the confusion surrounding buzzwords like Kenya, Islam ad Hussein that allowed them to draw the link to Obama in the first place.  If he was just another typical black kid from Chi-raq, I doubt they would've tried to make that connection - which is why they don't do it to most other black politicians.

 

47 minutes ago, jakee said:

it was definitely the being black thing.

I'm not trying to dismiss elements of racism surrounding his candidacy/presidency, but I think in this instance it was due moreso to being a Democrat.

 

50 minutes ago, jakee said:

Also, recall that one of Obama's opponents was actually really for sure not born in the USA, and no-one gave a toss because he was white.

Republicans didn't give a toss because he was a republican.  That's how politics seem to work these days.

[jakee 1,254]

12 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I think it was all the confusion surrounding buzzwords like Kenya, Islam ad Hussein that allowed them to draw the link to Obama in the first place.  If he was just another typical black kid from Chi-raq, I doubt they would've tried to make that connection - which is why they don't do it to most other black politicians.

Most other black politicians haven't run for President. The only reason any of it stuck or took off was because he was black. Two white parents, one of them from Europe whose own dad was a muslim and there is not a snowball's chance in hell the racist right like Limbaugh, Jones and Trump would have been able to spread it like they did.

Edited May 2, 2020 by jakee

[billvon 2,380]

3 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

The double standard of outrage is telling.

Can you imagine what would happen if someone referred to Obama as the "Chocolate Bar In Chief"?

 

That's about as insightful as the guy in Alabama who says "well if black people can call themselves the N-word why can't I?"

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

The reason it was brought up for him and none of the others is because he's black.

Hi jakee,

^^^^^^^ and only this.

Jerry Baumchen

[turtlespeed 212]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

What exactly do you disagree with? Are you saying that Obama isn't definitely a natural born citizen or that Trump is naturally that colour?

 

Either way it's a pretty extreme length to go to just so you can pick an argument. That you're happy to associate with the racist fringe rather than be on the same side of anything as me is quite telling.

Below are the statements you made that I disagree with.

Yes, equating making fun of someone's makeup with racism is a double standard.

>>>>Incorrect.

He is and always was absolutely and undoubtedly a natural born citizen, just like every other presidential candidate. The reason it was brought up for him and none of the others is because he's black.

>>>>Incorrect

Being orange is not a physical characteristic of Trump. That's not his real skin. Furthermore, the class of people who are really bad at personal styling is not going to be found alongside any protected class such as those of Jewish descent. Being black is, yet you seem to have no problem with the attempts made to make Obama seem un-American because he was black. You should do something about that double standard before it starts looking too ugly on you.

>>>>Incorrect

[jakee 1,254]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Below are the statements you made that I disagree with.

Right, so you're claiming Obama isn't definitely American and Trump is genetically orange.

 

Put that alongside your posting a link to a Kenyan chocolate bar called 'The chocolate bar' as if it has any relevance to what we're talking about and it seems like you're seriously losing it.

[olofscience 420]

26 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

>>>>Incorrect

That's his natural colour???

Maybe it's just me but the skin around his eyes is uncannily pale and the tan lines don't look natural at all. His hands are way paler than his face too.

 

[turtlespeed 212]

25 minutes ago, jakee said:

Right, so you're claiming Obama isn't definitely American and Trump is genetically orange.

 

Put that alongside your posting a link to a Kenyan chocolate bar called 'The chocolate bar' as if it has any relevance to what we're talking about and it seems like you're seriously losing it.

No.  You made more than one statement. 

[turtlespeed 212]

9 minutes ago, olofscience said:

That's his natural colour???

Maybe it's just me but the skin around his eyes is uncannily pale and the tan lines don't look natural at all. His hands are way paler than his face too.

In my opinion, it's no more or less different than someone that does skin bleaching

[olofscience 420]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

In my opinion, it's no more or less different than someone that does skin bleaching

I think the main point is that it's not natural.

 

It's one thing to make fun of a person who does something silly to their appearance, and a completely different thing to make fun of a person's natural skin colour.

Edited May 2, 2020 by olofscience

[jakee 1,254]

20 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

No.  You made more than one statement. 

You said "below are the statements you made that I disagree with" You then proceeded to quote the statements that Trump is not naturally orange and Obama was definitely born a US citizen. Ergo, you clearly stated you disagree with them.

 

If you want to clarify exactly what you do or don't disagree with, please feel free but at the moment I can only go by the statements you have made, and that was it.

 

And seriously, what was the thing with the chocolate bar? What on earth was that supposed to mean?

Edited May 2, 2020 by jakee

[Coreece 189]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

And seriously, what was the thing with the chocolate bar? What on earth was that supposed to mean?

 I don't know, but I'd like to try the Single Origin Congo – Carmel N’ Nibs – 65% Dark Chocolate, but they don't deliver here.

 

[wmw999 2,116]

People used to make fun of Michael Jackson's repeated surgeries...

Wendy P.

[mistercwood 287]

4 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

In my opinion, it's no more or less different than someone that does skin bleaching

If they ever do Hands Across America again, at least everyone can breathe easy knowing you got it covered with that reach.

[DJL 232]

On 5/2/2020 at 5:36 PM, wmw999 said:

People used to make fun of Michael Jackson's repeated surgeries...

Wendy P.

That's a good example for this discussion.  It's a world of difference to make fun of someone's cosmetic decisions than it is to insult someone as belonging to a race, religion, nationality, or identity that has historically caused their people to be enslaved, murdered en mass, or subjects of institutional bigotry.

On 5/2/2020 at 3:11 PM, turtlespeed said:

In my opinion, it's no more or less different than someone that does skin bleaching

Turtle, your thoughts on the above?

[turtlespeed 212]

2 minutes ago, DJL said:

That's a good example for this discussion.  It's a world of difference to make fun of someone's cosmetic decisions than it is to insult someone as belonging to a race, religion, nationality, or identity that has historically caused their people to be enslaved, murdered en mass, or subjects of institutional bigotry.

Turtle, your thoughts on the above?

I agree with Wendy - It was MJ that I had in mind when I mentioned skin bleaching.

I don't really see any difference.  Its who they are now.  

I equate it to the likes of anyone mocking Michelle Obama's physique.  It's childish and immature.

 

 

[DJL 232]

18 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I agree with Wendy - It was MJ that I had in mind when I mentioned skin bleaching.

I don't really see any difference.  Its who they are now.  

I equate it to the likes of anyone mocking Michelle Obama's physique.  It's childish and immature.

 

 

Out of curiosity, why do you think Michael Jackson was bleaching his skin?  What was he trying to accomplish?

Edit:  You know what, we're just going to run into MJ's claim that he had vitiligo if we use him.  And his surgery to go from an wide nose to thin nose, etc has the side story that he was just a strange bird.

So, to talk about equating these things, if someone gets made fun of because of their looks that is not OK and I do understand the comparison you're making.  People have been denied jobs and ostracized because of their looks and their weight and even for wearing a clownish quantity of makeup.  BUT at no point in history have those people been categorically enslaved and killed.  No black Kings of England (YET).  No Gay Presidents of the United States (YET).  No Jewish (Fucking take your pick)... (YET).  But there have been ugly, overweight, ill dressed and poorly manicured leaders who got there as a course of merit, luck and privilege.  There has been an institutionalized and cultural effort to deny those positions to people based upon their race, religion, ancestry and sexuality.  THAT is the difference between a petty joke and bigotry.

To get back to the question above.  Why would someone want to look more light skinned or hide their parent's religion?

Edited May 4, 2020 by DJL

[jakee 1,254]

20 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I equate it to the likes of anyone mocking Michelle Obama's physique.  It's childish and immature.

And you also said it was like the propaganda against the Jews in the 1940s. To be honest, I think it's worrying that you would attempt to minimise the anti-semitic wave that lead to the holocaust as being merely 'childish', but maybe that's just me.

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, DJL said:

Out of curiosity, why do you think Michael Jackson was bleaching his skin?  What was he trying to accomplish?

Edit:  You know what, we're just going to run into MJ's claim that he had vitiligo if we use him.  And his surgery to go from an wide nose to thin nose, etc has the side story that he was just a strange bird.

So, to talk about equating these things, if someone gets made fun of because of their looks that is not OK and I do understand the comparison you're making.  People have been denied jobs and ostracized because of their looks and their weight and even for wearing a clownish quantity of makeup.  BUT at no point in history have those people been categorically enslaved and killed.  No black Kings of England (YET).  No Gay Presidents of the United States (YET).  No Jewish (Fucking take your pick)... (YET).  But there have been ugly, overweight, ill dressed and poorly manicured leaders who got there as a course of merit, luck and privilege.  There has been an institutionalized and cultural effort to deny those positions to people based upon their race, religion, ancestry and sexuality.  THAT is the difference between a petty joke and bigotry.

To get back to the question above.  Why would someone want to look more light skinned or hide their parent's religion?

Agree and I also agree on the Jackson issue. ?? Its difficult to figure out all the psychological issues that Jackson had.

[wmw999 2,116]

21 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Agree and I also agree on the Jackson issue. ?? Its difficult to figure out all the psychological issues that Jackson had.

And maybe Donald Trump is more complex that we give him credit for, too. Doesn't make him a good president, but he is a human being.

Wendy P.

[turtlespeed 212]

2 hours ago, DJL said:

To get back to the question above.  Why would someone want to look more light skinned or hide their parent's religion?

My guess would be their self image suffers.