COVID-19: Astroturfing the "reopen" demonstrations

[olofscience 420]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I agree - so in those areas where there isn't any overwhelming cases - loosen the restrictions.  

This isn't a black or white issue - it needs to be done responsibly, and with forethought.

New York should have the tightest restrictions, where small towns in rural areas should have the loosest.

Re evaluate the process continually.

Lockdowns are only a last resort when all other containment efforts fail. However, you need to remember that this thing grows exponentially.

Quoted from another forum:

Quote

We *can* open, but are too dumb to do it right. The anti-lockdown protestors could have made a point by saying, "We look to places like South Korea and Taiwan who prove that you can both be open and reduce numbers of infected. Let us study, emulate and perhaps even improve upon their methods." That would be the smart approach. Get educated, organize, come up with a system to mitigate lack of resources until it arrives. Work on communal solutions. Instead, these morons bring their guns to government buildings to brandish like extras from 'The Road Warrior' demanding a 'fat tank of gas'.

 

[turtlespeed 212]

5 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Lockdowns are only a last resort when all other containment efforts fail. However, you need to remember that this thing grows exponentially.

Quoted from another forum:

 

I appreciate that way of thinking, however, the two societies are completely different.  This is unprecedented, and out of necessity, has to be run by trial and error.  There is a responsible way to do this - What is keeping it from happening, is the  media and politics.  I fear it has very little to do with reality.

[olofscience 420]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

the two societies are completely different

They're good at maths?

[turtlespeed 212]

29 minutes ago, olofscience said:

They're good at maths?

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

From there I did a search, then I posted the screen shot of what came up.  It is interesting the way the different headlines are worded, is it not?

Yes, it is interesting that the journalists can recognise that the actions of the two Governors are very different yet you cannot, even when they have presented you the details.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

In a political forum that is inundated with Trump bashing threads - you want me to stop viewing things with an "Us vs Them" polarized view.  

 

Yes. I'll be honest, I don't hold out much hope for you but it's telling that even you think it's hilarious to think you could ever be reasonable.

 

A little analogy for this situation, there's a stretch of road with a corner, a straight, and a posted 30mph speed limit throughout. A blue car goes through the corner at 25 and speeds up to 30 on the straight. A red car goes through the corner at 35 and speeds up to 40 on the straight. You are shouting at anyone who will listen that because they both sped up the two drivers are equally as bad as each other and anyone who says otherwise is a one-eyed blue car propagandist. What everyone else sees is that you're so blinded by your red car bias that you've lost the ability to think critically about anything related to driving.

[olofscience 420]

It's not even "Us vs Them" - it's "Us vs the virus".

The virus will not cut the government any slack. So why should we?

[billvon 2,391]

5 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

https://summit.news/2020/04/21/expert-says-u-s-is-on-the-brink-of-mass-civil-unrest/

Agreed.  We MIGHT see deaths from 'mass civil unrest.'  We ARE seeing deaths from COVID.  We WILL see deaths from it in the future.

In my book it's better to prevent deaths that are occurring right now - and that will occur in the future - than to try to prevent imaginary deaths.

[turtlespeed 212]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

Agreed.  We MIGHT see deaths from 'mass civil unrest.'  We ARE seeing deaths from COVID.  We WILL see deaths from it in the future.

In my book it's better to prevent deaths that are occurring right now - and that will occur in the future - than to try to prevent imaginary deaths.

Using another Skydiving analogy:

If you still skydive, I'm sure you approach it with caution and intelligence, and preparedness.  You still know the risks.  You can do everything right and still die.

In your world of corona virus, you are effectively banning skydiving.  You don't get to take the risk anymore.  You are taking other's choices away, and there is no real warrant for that in the ares that are so minimally affected.

Loosen up regulations in those areas and go from there. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by turtlespeed

[billvon 2,391]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

I agree - so in those areas where there isn't any overwhelming cases - loosen the restrictions.  

This isn't a black or white issue - it needs to be done responsibly, and with forethought.

And in Colorado, it was done responsibly and with forethought.  Specifically:

• Apr 27 - curbside pickup OK
• May 1 - stores can open with occupancy limits
• May 4 - some offices can open at half capacity, with the rest telecommuting

With checkpoints in place to reclose some of those if the death rate goes up.

In Georgia, the plan is to reopen everything within a few days.  Gyms, tattoo parlors, massage places, barbers, bars.  No restrictions.

Result?  You attack Colorado because they are democratic and the media is saying they are responsible.

Yes it's not a black and white issue - it needs thought and care.  And the reason that won't happen is people like you.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

36 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

You can do everything right and still die.

You don't see the difference between that sentence applying to a hobby and to grocery shopping?

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

“Watch out for them, they are human scum!”   Thats the reference that trump made to republicans who refused to support his ideology. Yet his supporters view themselves as centrist.

Hi Phil,

And early-on, when Wash. Gov. Inslee disagreed with Trump, he called him a 'snake,' along with some other disparaging comments.

What a great leader.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[kallend 1,622]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Using another Skydiving analogy:

If you still skydive, I'm sure you approach it with caution and intelligence, and preparedness.  You still know the risks.  You can do everything right and still die.

In your world of corona virus, you are effectively banning skydiving.  You don't get to take the risk anymore.  You are taking other's choices away, and there is no real warrant for that in the ares that are so minimally affected.

Loosen up regulations in those areas and go from there. 

Generally speaking, if you are an irresponsible skydiver you only endanger yourself and those who have chosen to jump with you.

Behaving irresponsibly when infectious with a potentially killer virus endangers everyone.

[turtlespeed 212]

Just now, kallend said:

Generally speaking, if you are an irresponsible skydiver you only endanger yourself and those who have chosen to jump with you.

Behaving irresponsibly when infectious with a potentially killer virus endangers everyone.

Maybe - unless you don't obey the 3 second rule, or the 45 degree rule, or maybe low turn into a crowd,  or swoop into a canopy collision . . . or  . . . or . . .

[jakee 1,254]

14 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Maybe - unless you don't obey the 3 second rule, or the 45 degree rule, or maybe low turn into a crowd,  or swoop into a canopy collision . . . or  . . . or . . .

Settle down there Stretch Armstrong.

[turtlespeed 212]

Just now, jakee said:

Settle down there Stretch Armstrong.

Don't toy with me!

[ryoder 1,381]

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Yup. Abso-fucking-lutely hilarious how many Trumpettes have suddenly decided that they should have the right to make decisions about their own body.

In this case, however, they completely ignore the fact that becoming infected and infectious affects a LOT of other people too.

[kallend 1,622]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Maybe - unless you don't obey the 3 second rule, or the 45 degree rule, or maybe low turn into a crowd,  or swoop into a canopy collision . . . or  . . . or . . .

Well,

1:  Those who don't obey the rules you mention have CHOSEN to get on the plane with you, so they fall under my statement.  FAIL on that one, turtle.

2. I stated "generally".  How many fatalities due to swooping into a crowd have occurred in the past 10 years, and compare with total skydiving fatalities?  I think FAIL on that one too.

[jakee 1,254]

9 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

This is pretty telling:

Look at how the media addresses the two states plans.

Difference :: Political party of the governor.

Just to revisit this - guess who just said these different things about states re-opening in general, and the Georgia governor's plans specifically;

"It's been encouraging to watch states begin to open up, it's a beautiful thing to see...

I told the governor very simply I disagree... safety has to predominate....

I think spas and beauty salons and tattoo parlours and barber shops - in phase one is just too soon."

 

Yep, that's right - in Turtle world even Donald Trump is a leftist hack looking for any excuse to criticise a good republican governor! Any chance you're going to cop to being flat out wrong on this one T?

[billvon 2,391]

3 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Maybe - unless you don't obey the 3 second rule, or the 45 degree rule, or maybe low turn into a crowd,  or swoop into a canopy collision . . . or  . . . or . . .

Try that.  Tell people "I'm going to pull under you.  But at most I'll kill one person, and the flu kills like 10,000 people a year.  So no worries.  Right?"

[headoverheels 291]

I spoke to my brother today.  He lives in Atlanta.  He said tomorrow he can go get a haircut, then a massage, then go to the gym, then get a tattoo.   He can't go to bars until next week.

 

[turtlespeed 212]

13 hours ago, jakee said:

Just to revisit this - guess who just said these different things about states re-opening in general, and the Georgia governor's plans specifically;

"It's been encouraging to watch states begin to open up, it's a beautiful thing to see...

I told the governor very simply I disagree... safety has to predominate....

I think spas and beauty salons and tattoo parlours and barber shops - in phase one is just too soon."

 

Yep, that's right - in Turtle world even Donald Trump is a leftist hack looking for any excuse to criticise a good republican governor! Any chance you're going to cop to being flat out wrong on this one T?

Negative.

I have said that we have to be responsible in the openings. 

Not a blanket "Open the State" 

That is also what the governor said in his speech. 

I am not advocating any aggressive openings.

So - no - your preconceptions color what you're hearing me say.

[turtlespeed 212]

7 hours ago, headoverheels said:

I spoke to my brother today.  He lives in Atlanta.  He said tomorrow he can go get a haircut, then a massage, then go to the gym, then get a tattoo.   He can't go to bars until next week.

 

That amount of opening of business is too aggressive.  

 

[jakee 1,254]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

Negative.

I have said that we have to be responsible in the openings. 

Not a blanket "Open the State" 

That is also what the governor said in his speech. 

I am not advocating any aggressive openings.

So - no - your preconceptions color what you're hearing me say.

Once again Turtle - stop lying, stop trolling, stop pretending you can't remember the things you said only one page ago.

 

You were selling the line that since the media are criticising the Georgia governor and not the Colorado governor, it must be because of anti-Republican bias. But it isn't. It's because the Georgia governor's plan is irresponsible and reckless and the Colorado governor's plan is not. And now we're in a situation where even Donald Trump can admit that, but you can't. Just think about what that says for your claims of trying to be as neutral as possible.