We're watching you

[JoeWeber 2,299]

Let this detonate in your brain, again. We know it's happening but we try not to think about it because, well, stuff.

From the Guardian:

Until now the use of mobile phone tracking in the fight against Covid-19 has been restricted to national governments, which are either monitoring data within their borders or in discussions with mobile operators and technology companies about doing so.

They include the US, India, Iran, Poland, Singapore, Israel, and South Korea. The British government is engaged in talks with BT, the owner of the UK mobile operator EE, about using phone location and usage data to determine the efficacy of isolation orders.

The concept of an international mobile tracing scheme would go further, enabling authorities to monitor movements and potentially track the spread of the disease across borders.

How long before the data is not anonymized? How long until I can locate you with an app? 

[gowlerk 1,912]

Are you just waking up to this? I thought you were more in touch than that. What do you think the NSA does? Did you think Snowdon was kidding?

Edited March 27, 2020 by gowlerk

[JoeWeber 2,299]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Are you just waking up to this? I thought you were more in touch than that. What do you think the NSA does? Did you think Snowdon was kidding?

No, that's why I said again. But in the name of national security when a national crisis is in play it might just get a lot more real and personal.

[billvon 2,400]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

 

How long before the data is not anonymized? How long until I can locate you with an app? 

This has been possible (and has been in use) for more than 15 years.  "Lawful intercept" is a feature that all carriers have to support.

[normiss 622]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

This has been possible (and has been in use) for more than 15 years.  "Lawful intercept" is a feature that all carriers have to support.

Legally since the early 90's, technically a minute before it became legal.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

17 minutes ago, billvon said:

This has been possible (and has been in use) for more than 15 years.  "Lawful intercept" is a feature that all carriers have to support.

Yes, but we never think about it. We're happy campers because somehow we aren't personally impacted. That may change and fast. Does anyone doubt that the current administration, wizened to the possibilities, wouldn't use any of us for Trumps advantage? I'm just observing that we're on a different playing field.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

We're happy campers because somehow we aren't personally impacted. 

Hi Joe,

You have hit the crux of it.

Over the years when I have had discussions with people about certain provisions in certain legislation, the usual response is, 'Why should I be worried, I don't break the law?'

They wake up very suddenly when the wrath of the gov't's power is directed at them.  Any level of gov't.

It is for this very reason that I donate to the ACLU every year.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I seem to recall something about oxes  being gored, etc.  

[billvon 2,400]

37 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes, but we never think about it. We're happy campers because somehow we aren't personally impacted.

Exactly.  But some of us know we _can_ be - and how easy it would be to do it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Of course, the fact that all of this can be thwarted by simply leaving your phone behind seems to be a concept beyond the comprehension of many.

[ryoder 1,384]

31 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Of course, the fact that all of this can be thwarted by simply leaving your phone behind seems to be a concept beyond the comprehension of many.

LEAVE YOUR PHONE BEHIND???

There is also this: https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Pocket-Faraday-Phone-Sleeve/dp/B017VOS1DA

Or, if you are a traditionalist, old-fashioned aluminum foil.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Well, one of my 'indulgences' is 'real life crime' TV. Lately, the "Court TV Mystery" channel (used to be 'Escape') has been showing old A&E "First 48" episodes. It follows homicide detectives as they investigate murders (tagline - if the police don't get a suspect in the first 48 hours, their chances of solving a case drop by one half).
The number of cases where cell phone records are crucial in clearing the case is huge, either the numbers called or the locations the calls were made from.

If I ever decide to commit a serious crime, my phone will NOT be coming with me. 

[turtlespeed 212]

Hash Tag Burner Phone

[dudeman17 270]

If you're looking for a decent show to binge watch while you're sheltering in place, might I suggest 'Person of Interest'. Yes, it's on-topic.

[BIGUN 1,053]

4 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

'Person of Interest'

Always cracks me up how someone will stand on their "Privacy Rights" soapbox, then jump on facebook and just give it all away - which was the premise of the show. I enjoyed it for about the first three seasons, then like most it was just a re-play of the same plot each week.   

[jakee 1,254]

3 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Always cracks me up how someone will stand on their "Privacy Rights" soapbox, then jump on facebook and just give it all away - which was the premise of the show. I enjoyed it for about the first three seasons, then like most it was just a re-play of the same plot each week.   

Ah man, IIRC a lot of season 4 and all of 5 shift to moving forward the overall Machine vs Evil Machine plot instead of the standard case of the week.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

5 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, one of my 'indulgences' is 'real life crime' TV. Lately, the "Court TV Mystery" channel (used to be 'Escape') has been showing old A&E "First 48" episodes. It follows homicide detectives as they investigate murders (tagline - if the police don't get a suspect in the first 48 hours, their chances of solving a case drop by one half).
The number of cases where cell phone records are crucial in clearing the case is huge, either the numbers called or the locations the calls were made from.

If I ever decide to commit a serious crime, my phone will NOT be coming with me. 

Which is not to say you shouldn't bring someone's phone.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Which is not to say you shouldn't bring someone's phone.

Kinda like scrounging random cigarette butts off the ground to drop at the scene of the crime.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

26 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Kinda like scrounging random cigarette butts off the ground to drop at the scene of the crime.

Hi Joe,

You need to start writing for Dick Wolfe; or one of the CSI programs.

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Hi Jerry,

No. As I noted above, I watch a lot (too much) 'reality crime' TV. First 48, Forensic Files, that sort of thing.

Cigarette butts usually have saliva on them and can provide DNA. 
If I put someone else's DNA at a crime scene, then they are less likely to focus on me and it provides a defense attorney an avenue of "it wasn't my client's DNA found at the scene". 

This concept is hardly original. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

47 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

This concept is hardly original. 

Hi Joe,

Nothing on tv is original.  I still think you should consider it.

Jerry Baumchen

[sfzombie13 307]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:31 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

This concept is hardly original. 

i have an original one for you.  i have the ultimate murder gun for you, and there may be others out there like it.  m&p shield .40 cal.  fits in your pocket well, hammerless, won't jam when 3 rounds are fired in the pocket, and it's an automatic.  the murder part is that the 9mm is interchangeable with just replacing the barrel and magazine.  swap them out, use it, then take the 9mm barrel and magazine to the garage and melt them with the torch.  they never get as far as looking at the firing pin since it's the wrong caliber.  the automatic part works in your favor in this case.  think that would work?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 minute ago, sfzombie13 said:

i have an original one for you.  i have the ultimate murder gun for you, and there may be others out there like it.  m&p shield .40 cal.  fits in your pocket well, hammerless, won't jam when 3 rounds are fired in the pocket, and it's an automatic.  the murder part is that the 9mm is interchangeable with just replacing the barrel and magazine.  swap them out, use it, then take the 9mm barrel and magazine to the garage and melt them with the torch.  they never get as far as looking at the firing pin since it's the wrong caliber.  the automatic part works in your favor in this case.  think that would work?

First off, it takes a hell of a 'torch' to melt steel. Most folks don't have oxy/acetylene handy.

Second off, the cops know about 'switchable guns'. If they had a strong suspect and found a gun that could be the right one, they'd just find a 9mm barrel and look at the firing pin, extractor & ejector marks. 

The 'Wounded Knee' FBI killings were shown to be done with an AR. One argument for Peltier's innocence is that the cartridge markings didn't match. But the bullets matched the barrel. 
The shooters likely switched out the bolt & carrier, similar to what you are thinking.

It might work, but I kinda doubt it.
Interesting way to think about it, though.

[Phil1111 910]

25 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

i have an original one for you.  i have the ultimate murder gun for you, and there may be others out there like it.  m&p shield .40 cal.  fits in your pocket well, hammerless, won't jam when 3 rounds are fired in the pocket, and it's an automatic.  the murder part is that the 9mm is interchangeable with just replacing the barrel and magazine.  swap them out, use it, then take the 9mm barrel and magazine to the garage and melt them with the torch.  they never get as far as looking at the firing pin since it's the wrong caliber.  the automatic part works in your favor in this case.  think that would work?

Striker fired aka Glock. Why melt when you can throw it away? If you fire it in your pocket how are you supposed to aim it, seen too many westerns?

18 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

First off, it takes a hell of a 'torch' to melt steel. ...The frame is polymer

Second off, the cops know about 'switchable guns'. If they had a strong suspect and found a gun that could be the right one, they'd just find a 9mm barrel and look at the firing pin, extractor & ejector marks.

It might work, but I kinda doubt it.
Interesting way to think about it, though.

Oh dear. Only a week into a lockdown and people are thinking of murder already.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

16 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Only a week into a lockdown and people are thinking of murder already.

Hi Phil,

Hey, crim. def. lawyers need to eat too.

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

51 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Striker fired aka Glock. Why melt when you can throw it away? If you fire it in your pocket how are you supposed to aim it, seen too many westerns?

Oh dear. Only a week into a lockdown and people are thinking of murder already.

Oh hell no.

This sort of stuff is on my mind on a regular basis.

Point shooting is a way to aim. It's only good at very short ranges, and it takes a fair amount of practice. But I know guys who can do it reasonably well.

"Reasonably well" meaning torso hits from 5 or 6 feet. Not dead center, but well within the 'C' area. Not all of them, but 75% or better. 

 

And I know full well the frame is polymer. He was talking about melting down the barrel. I haven't seen a polymer barrel yet (Yes, there are barrels that are made of carbon fiber, but they still have a steel liner).