Democratic victories in C19 war

[Phil1111 910]

"in the $2.1 trillion House Democratic stimulus proposal, which includes a lobbying ban for companies that receive government aid until the funds are repaid. It would also ban corporations that receive a loan for coronavirus relief from giving bonuses to executives, buying back their own stock, and paying out dividends to shareholders." This is on the House side so its nor a real victory yet.

“The COVID crisis is shaking up Washington, and since more stimulus packages are likely to be on the table, we expect K Street to continue to ratchet up their attention and spending,” Lisa Gilbert, vice president of legislative affairs at Public Citizen, told The Hill. “With that backdrop, putting limits on the corporations that receive taxpayer dollars in bailouts is just common sense.”

Meanwhile the American lives that trump wants to throw under the bus by "reopening America" has brought on new scrutiny.

[airdvr 197]

You must be thrilled that the economy is tanking.  It was the cornerstone of Trump's re-election bid.

[turtlespeed 212]

3 minutes ago, airdvr said:

You must be thrilled that the economy is tanking.  It was the cornerstone of Trump's re-election bid.

As I understand it - the worse off the people are, the happier the democrats are likely to be, because it hurts the reelection chances.

 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

As I understand it - the worse off the people are, the happier the democrats are likely to be, because it hurts the reelection chances.

 

Shows that understanding isn't your strong suit.

[turtlespeed 212]

5 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Shows that understanding isn't your strong suit.

???? What was your topic again?

[DJL 232]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

You must be thrilled that the economy is tanking.  It was the cornerstone of Trump's re-election bid.

Democrats:  This thing we're putting money into protects our national interests and creates stability.

Republicans:  It's unnecessary spending!

[Thing happens and the market tanks]

Democrats: Told you so.

Republicans You must be thrilled that the economy is tanking. 

[gowlerk 1,912]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

"in the $2.1 trillion House Democratic stimulus proposal, which includes a lobbying ban for companies that receive government aid until the funds are repaid. It would also ban corporations that receive a loan for coronavirus relief from giving bonuses to executives, buying back their own stock, and paying out dividends to shareholders." This is on the House side so its nor a real victory yet.

“The COVID crisis is shaking up Washington, and since more stimulus packages are likely to be on the table, we expect K Street to continue to ratchet up their attention and spending,” Lisa Gilbert, vice president of legislative affairs at Public Citizen, told The Hill. “With that backdrop, putting limits on the corporations that receive taxpayer dollars in bailouts is just common sense.”

Meanwhile the American lives that trump wants to throw under the bus by "reopening America" has brought on new scrutiny.

Lobbying is free speech. That ban will never stand.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quite ironic that as capitalism falters the US demands quick socialist action to help themselves.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Quite ironic that as capitalism falters the US demands quick socialist action to help themselves.

Even more so that the party that severely criticized the Obama era bailouts is proposing virtually the same thing.

[turtlespeed 212]

15 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Even more so that the party that severely criticized the Obama era bailouts is proposing virtually the same thing.

Different reasons - 

<Sarcasm> Plus it was a different POTUS . . . Its their guy now.

Maybe if Obama would have pushed the 2T instead . . . .

[ryoder 1,384]

3 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Even more so that the party that severely criticized the Obama era bailouts is proposing virtually the same thing.

TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) was signed into law on October 3, 2008.

Now think about who signed it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Both the bank & auto bailouts were started by GWB.

But Obama continued and expanded them.

And gets a ton of blame for them, too.

[billvon 2,400]

8 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Quite ironic that as capitalism falters the US demands quick socialist action to help themselves.

I heard an awesome explanation from a Facebook Trumpie who was defending the bailout as "not at all socialist" - he explained that "when you give people their own money back to help them, it's not socialism."

So there you go.  Obamacare, welfare, US highway system, TARP, SNAP - not at all socialist!  The only things that are socialist are things that Bernie Sanders proposes.  When Trump does the same thing, it's "giving people their own money back to help them."

[turtlespeed 212]

11 hours ago, billvon said:

I heard an awesome explanation from a Facebook Trumpie who was defending the bailout as "not at all socialist" - he explained that "when you give people their own money back to help them, it's not socialism."

So there you go.  Obamacare, welfare, US highway system, TARP, SNAP - not at all socialist!  The only things that are socialist are things that Bernie Sanders proposes.  When Trump does the same thing, it's "giving people their own money back to help them."

He has a point though - whether you want to even try to consider it or not,

Welfare is giving other peoples money to someone to help them.

Obamacare is forcing you pay into a service you may or may not use, and regardless it is not funding it is a service.

The stimulus part of giving a check for taxes paid, back to the taxpayer, is just that - giving the money back.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by turtlespeed

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

12 hours ago, billvon said:

I heard an awesome explanation from a Facebook Trumpie who was defending the bailout as "not at all socialist" - he explained that "when you give people their own money back to help them, it's not socialism."

So there you go.  Obamacare, welfare, US highway system, TARP, SNAP - not at all socialist!  The only things that are socialist are things that Bernie Sanders proposes.  When Trump does the same thing, it's "giving people their own money back to help them."

How can it be 'giving money back?

Much of the money being handed out to corporations is going to companies that paid little or no income taxes.

[turtlespeed 212]

14 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

How can it be 'giving money back?

Much of the money being handed out to corporations is going to companies that paid little or no income taxes.

I would like to see actual figures on that - 

Little as in percentage?  Little as in actual dollar amount?

8% of 100B is a lot of money.  They should not receive more than they put in.  Unless they go on actual interest rates for the loan.

[billvon 2,400]

51 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

8% of 100B is a lot of money.  They should not receive more than they put in. 

That sort of attitude would put the GOP out of business.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

I would like to see actual figures on that - 

Little as in percentage?  Little as in actual dollar amount?

8% of 100B is a lot of money.  They should not receive more than they put in.  Unless they go on actual interest rates for the loan.

Well, for Boeing they paid an effective Federal tax rate of 8.4% on $54.7 Billion in profit from 2008 to 2017. That decreased in the years after that. So in that decade they paid $4.6 Billion in taxes. In the same decade they spent $47 billion buying back their own stock to make their executives richer.

Their ask this week was $50 billion.

So no, they are not getting their own money back and it is an absolute ridiculous point. It is socialism, because capitalism didn't work.

[wmw999 2,121]

I hate the title of this thread; I'd rather just see victories.

That said, this discussion of whether you get more in taxes than you paid in -- does that apply to states' return on their federal tax investments?

 2019 article (it's the most recent I could find)

Wendy P.

[turtlespeed 212]

52 minutes ago, billvon said:

That sort of attitude would put the GOP out of business.

I'm not affiliated, so I really don't care.

[CygnusX-1 42]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

The stimulus part of giving a check for taxes paid, back to the taxpayer, is just that - giving the money back.

But what about all this that I hear about giving $2000 checks to the poor (individuals) who made too little to pay any income taxes? I'm all for me getting my money back. But we should not be giving money in this stimulus to those that are too poor to have paid taxes in the first place. Right?

[turtlespeed 212]

34 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Well, for Boeing they paid an effective Federal tax rate of 8.4% on $54.7 Billion in profit from 2008 to 2017. That decreased in the years after that. So in that decade they paid $4.6 Billion in taxes. In the same decade they spent $47 billion buying back their own stock to make their executives richer.

Their ask this week was $50 billion.

So no, they are not getting their own money back and it is an absolute ridiculous point. It is socialism, because capitalism didn't work.

They are asking - That doesn't mean they will be getting.

If they want that money, limit the ultra low interest loan to the amount of taxes they paid previously for the the length of the loan.  i.e. if the loan is 5 years - it equals the taxes paid for the previous 5 years.  The rest that they are asking should be a collateral loan, at current interest rates.

I would fight tooth and nail against any other deal. 

[normiss 622]

Interesting to see the bill passed in the Senate with a unanimous vote of 96-0. When Obama needed to pass a stimulus, only 3 Republicans voted for it to prevent a depression. The GOP tried to sink the economy to hurt Obama, whereas every Dem voted to save the economy, even if it helps Trump.

[turtlespeed 212]

2 minutes ago, CygnusX-1 said:

But what about all this that I hear about giving $2000 checks to the poor (individuals) who made too little to pay any income taxes? I'm all for me getting my money back. But we should not be giving money in this stimulus to those that are too poor to have paid taxes in the first place. Right?

Unfortunately that would also be disastrous.  MOST of those people live paycheck to paycheck.

If they filed a tax return, and they are legal citizens, they should get some kind of support.

Even if they had their entire tax burden returned as a refund, they should receive support, and help.

 

And, yes, I am very serious.  (I'll sit back and watch some heads explode - I should be able to see that from here)

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, normiss said:

Interesting to see the bill passed in the Senate with a unanimous vote of 96-0. When Obama needed to pass a stimulus, only 3 Republicans voted for it to prevent a depression. The GOP tried to sink the economy to hurt Obama, whereas every Dem voted to save the economy, even if it helps Trump.

That's a good start.