China 'willfully inflicted coronavirus upon the world'

[JoeWeber 2,297]

12 hours ago, airdvr said:

If a member of congress has been in power for more than 3 election cycles they are probably corrupt. 

Was your study inconclusive at 1 or 2 election cycles? No matter probably is close enough. Hang the bastard. 

[airdvr 197]

13 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Was your study inconclusive at 1 or 2 election cycles? No matter probably is close enough. Hang the bastard. 

Well...I was painting with a broad brush.  I would say a Senator 3 cycles and maybe 5 or 6 for a Representative although I think the opportunity for corruption is more in the Senate.

[turtlespeed 212]

24 minutes ago, billvon said:

Give us a few months.  Then WE will blame Italy and all the Trump supporters will get behind it.

All is a pretty big, 3 letter word.

[airdvr 197]

No need to blame Italy.  Focus man!

[JoeWeber 2,297]

56 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Well...I was painting with a broad brush.  I would say a Senator 3 cycles and maybe 5 or 6 for a Representative although I think the opportunity for corruption is more in the Senate.

Fair enough. Yet it begs another question: does your off the cuff analysis observe or predict any asymmetries amongst the various political affiliations? 

[airdvr 197]

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRPT-115hrpt1125/pdf/CRPT-115hrpt1125.pdf

Lots of good info but no summary.  I'm going to assume that party affiliation isn't as big acolumn as say, general douchebaggery.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

14 minutes ago, airdvr said:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRPT-115hrpt1125/pdf/CRPT-115hrpt1125.pdf

Lots of good info but no summary.  I'm going to assume that party affiliation isn't as big acolumn as say, general douchebaggery.

Also no party affiliation data. Nor is it a list of convicted officials. Nor, and here's the kicker, does it give any relationship to the then political environment. For example, I sort of wonder if a lot of (R) Senators and Congress people now feel a little emboldened since they gave Trump a pass. All of that is hard to come by which is why I was willing to rely on your independent research, not after the fact Googling.

[billvon 2,395]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

No need to blame Italy.  

Why blame Italy when we can blame China?  Because in a time of pandemic, the most important issue is who to blame.

[airdvr 197]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

Why blame Italy when we can blame China?  Because in a time of pandemic, the most important issue is who to blame.

Absolutely Bill...with the exception of blaming the POTUS I guess.

[airdvr 197]

5 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Also no party affiliation data. Nor is it a list of convicted officials. Nor, and here's the kicker, does it give any relationship to the then political environment. For example, I sort of wonder if a lot of (R) Senators and Congress people now feel a little emboldened since they gave Trump a pass. All of that is hard to come by which is why I was willing to rely on your independent research, not after the fact Googling.

I was able to find this page, although I'm not certain it amounts to a summary.

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Why blame Italy when we can blame China?  Because in a time of pandemic, the most important issue is who to blame.

It's always easier & more effective if the people you are trying to blame have a different color skin, different appearance, speak an entirely different language (with a very different 'alphabet').
Much easier to treat such people as "them". 

Compare the difference in the attitudes towards Germans vs Japanese during WW2. (Hint: How many Germans were taken from their homes and put into concentration camps?).

[JoeWeber 2,297]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

I was able to find this page, although I'm not certain it amounts to a summary.

 

Exactly. When I read the report you linked I saw the page. I'm happy to read the cites but please read them first.

[turtlespeed 212]

13 hours ago, airdvr said:

Absolutely Bill...with the exception of blaming the POTUS I guess.

But . . . But . . . Trump Bad!!!  Must Blame!!

ETA - 

To be fair, though - had Obama been President - It would have been "Obama Bad!!!  Must Blame!!!"

Edited March 25, 2020 by turtlespeed

[jakee 1,254]

31 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

But . . . But . . . Trump Bad!!!  Must Blame!!

ETA - 

To be fair, though - had Obama been President - It would have been "Obama Bad!!!  Must Blame!!!"

Where the virus came from and whether they did everything right or wrong there isn't hugely relevant right now. You can disect it later, but it's done and finished and you can't change it. The decisions our leaders are making on an ongoing basis are important right now, and the things they are saying are imprtant right now. And if pointing out that they are making bad decisions or saying things that aren't true helps provide some pressure for better decisions and honest communication then that's a lot more relevant.

 

But it's obvious why you'd want to miss that point so you can continue throwing hate at anyone you disagree with here.

[BIGUN 1,051]

China 'willfully inflicted coronavirus upon the world'

Back to the thread subject. I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. IMO; I don't think we can say, "China willfully . . ." But, what we should ask is; they do away with "wet markets."   

[airdvr 197]

Just now, BIGUN said:

China 'willfully inflicted coronavirus upon the world'

Back to the thread subject. I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. IMO; I don't think we can say, "China willfully . . ." But, what we should ask is; they do away with "wet markets."   

I think the willfulness was them trying to cover it up in the beginning.

[turtlespeed 212]

14 minutes ago, jakee said:

Where the virus came from and whether they did everything right or wrong there isn't hugely relevant right now. You can disect it later, but it's done and finished and you can't change it. The decisions our leaders are making on an ongoing basis are important right now, and the things they are saying are imprtant right now. And if pointing out that they are making bad decisions or saying things that aren't true helps provide some pressure for better decisions and honest communication then that's a lot more relevant.

 

But it's obvious why you'd want to miss that point so you can continue throwing hate at anyone you disagree with here.

It is also important to not lessen the reality of why this is what it is.

It is also important to not forget who it was that tried to cover it up in the first place, which is the #1 largest reason we are in the situation we are in now.

Yeah, the POTUS didn't take it as serious as he should have, when he should have, in the beginning.  

China actively covered it up with false numbers of infected, and other important factors, like contagion rate, that the worlds scientists had to discover for themselves in order to overcome those initial lies. 

That cover up directly led to more people being infected and a slower response time. 

I wonder who was on board bashing the POTUS when the travel restrictions to China were first enacted.

At its base, this isn't anyone's doing, except China.  Now the world must pay exponentially more for their deceit and lies.

But . . .  there are those here that want to freely trust China, any distrust others, like the POTUS.  

That doesn't seem like a very wise way to proceed.

Fix the problem now, yes. 

But do NOT trust information from those likely to be held accountable later.

 

[gowlerk 1,905]

30 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

China 'willfully inflicted coronavirus upon the world'

Back to the thread subject. I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. IMO; I don't think we can say, "China willfully . . ." But, what we should ask is; they do away with "wet markets."   

Better yet would be to work towards extermination of all non human mammals.

[turtlespeed 212]

18 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Better yet would be to work towards extermination of all non human mammals.

Why?

[airdvr 197]

With what we know about China convince me that this came from the wet markets and not some government lab.

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, airdvr said:

With what we know about China convince me that this came from the wet markets and not some government lab.

No Bat Soup For You!!

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I think the willfulness was them trying to cover it up in the beginning.

And Trump, after being briefed on how bad it is, downplaying it in January,  February, and early March,  wasn't willful?

[Phil1111 910]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

China 'willfully inflicted coronavirus upon the world'

Back to the thread subject. I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. IMO; I don't think we can say, "China willfully . . ." But, what we should ask is; they do away with "wet markets."   

I completely agree with this concept other than China isn't the only country. I assume you mean this?

China has announced that they have now "banned" these so called "wet markets". Or the trade in such wildlife. Or exotic animals now domesticated and raised wholesale for food. They stated the same "laws" before banning these practices. Would be enforced after the SARS epidemic. They never sustained enforcement of these bans.

Sometime in the last two weeks I posted a couple stories about these markets. With long videos of how and why they are popular in China. They are disgusting. They also illustrate why these markets remain popular in China and elsewhere.

"While markets like China's exist in other countries, he said the wildlife sold at the markets in China are particularly problematic. ... McCaul also criticized Chinese officials for “attempting to obfuscate” the origins of the virus and called on the World Health Organization to reprimand those responsible for the lack of cooperation in providing necessary information to prevent future pandemics. "

He is wrong on both the statements above. While SARS and COVID-19 have been traced back to the so called "wet-markets", more or less. Any markets for food from wildlife is problematic. There are something like 8000 similar identified virus in wildlife that could be transmitted to humans. The WHO blame game is a red herring.

If he wants blame he should glance around at his next party conference.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Phil1111

[airdvr 197]

39 minutes ago, kallend said:

And Trump, after being briefed on how bad it is, downplaying it in January,  February, and early March,  wasn't willful?

Considering China was still lying about it to the world at the end of January I'll give you March.  And even then he was trying to calm a public he and others knew would lose their shit, just as they are today.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Just now, airdvr said:

Considering China was still lying about it to the world at the end of January I'll give you March.  And even then he was trying to calm a public he and others knew would lose their shit, just as they are today.

Bullshit.

He was trying to pretend it wasn't serious so his stock portfolio wouldn't tank.
And, of course, after it became apparent that it was serious, he claimed he 'knew it was a pandemic before anyone else'. 
He wasn't trying to calm the public, he was thinking only of himself and his image. As always.

If he was 'trying to calm the public' (or even thinking of anyone but himself) why didn't he take the question asked 'what would you say to a scared public?' (paraphrased).
He didn't say something vanilla and calming, like Pence did later. He called the person who asked the question "Nasty". 

If he had said how serious it was and how serious it needed to be taken from the beginning, we could have done similar to South Korea (not as much testing, we didn't have the tests). 

And if we had taken it seriously to begin with, it probably wouldn't be as bad as it it. 

Again, I fail to see how anyone can continue to support or defend this buffon.