Praying for you

[billvon 2,384]

23 minutes ago, Channman said:

From my NIV study bible...11:3 the phase "the head of the woman is man," head is not used to indicate control or supremacy, but rather, "the source of". 

Right.  The source of, the thinking part, the place where words come from.  All of which works quite well with the rest of the Bible.  In much of the Bible, wives are seen as beloved pets.

[Channman 2]

54 minutes ago, billvon said:

Right.  The source of, the thinking part, the place where words come from.  All of which works quite well with the rest of the Bible.  In much of the Bible, wives are seen as beloved pets.

You a bit hostel to Christian Folk?  Husbands are to love their wives has Christ Loved the church and gave himself to the church and laid his life down for it.  Maybe you have the bible mixed up with the actions of Muslim men.

[gowlerk 1,903]

24 minutes ago, Channman said:

Maybe you have the bible mixed up with the actions of Muslim men.

Yes of course. We should all accept Christian misogyny because it comes in a milder form that that of some other religions. Or, we could just say no and give the girls the vote and all!

[Channman 2]

15 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Yes of course. We should all accept Christian misogyny because it comes in a milder form that that of some other religions. Or, we could just say no and give the girls the vote and all!

Christian misogyny...so what you are saying is Christian's have a dislike, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.  Is that truly what you think?

[gowlerk 1,903]

1 minute ago, Channman said:

Christian misogyny...so what you are saying is Christian's have a dislike, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.  Is that truly what you think?

Ask the Pope. Ask the brave women and men trying to keep access to abortion in the face of organized opposition from various branches of Christian churches. Christianity is highly patriarchal and that is a form of misogyny. It assumes that men are the head. And yes, it promotes ingrained prejudice against women.

[wmw999 2,116]

42 minutes ago, Channman said:

Christian misogyny...so what you are saying is Christian's have a dislike, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.  Is that truly what you think?

Depends on the Christian. The ones who think that women are beneath, or elevated -- yes. Because that "elevation" always comes at the expense of something else, and it robs women of agency. Some Christians don't think that way, but if they:

• think women should dress modestly, but don't have as many thoughts about men
• think that men should take care of their women because a normal family has the mother staying at home, and that a man staying home while the woman works is perverse
• think that women shouldn't teach men, or worship with them
• think that women shouldn't be clergy
• think that it's more important for girls than boys to learn things like cooking and housekeeping
• think that some behaviors are OK for boys (boys will be boys), but not girls
• think that it's much worse for a woman in work situations to be aggressive, hostile, or a ball-buster

then it's women they have a problem with, not behaviors, position, or dress. And it's men who make those decisions. Yes, some women like it -- there were women who were against women's suffrage 100 years ago, but, ya know -- there are precious few women in the US who still don't vote because it's not right for women to vote. Those things aren't inherent and "natural," they're societal.

Wendy P.

Edited March 12, 2020 by wmw999

[kallend 1,621]

18 hours ago, Channman said:

You a bit hostel to Christian Folk?  Husbands are to love their wives has Christ Loved the church and gave himself to the church and laid his life down for it.  Maybe you have the bible mixed up with the actions of Muslim men.

Maybe YOU should look in a mirror sometime.

[mbohu 77]

On 3/7/2020 at 6:25 PM, nigel99 said:

As I get older and grumpier it really pisses me off when people think that an appropriate response to someone reaching out for help is to ‘pray for them’

The latest incident was someone I know posting on Facebook about some friends of theirs in South Africa who are now homeless and struggling to get food etc (no welfare system as a safety net). Send $5 fine, but posting ‘I’ll be praying for them’ is frankly a cop out to make you feel good about yourself and absolve your guilt. 

Oh man! Seriously? Here are some suggested simple responses:

"I am praying for you" "I'm sending good vibes"
Response: "Thank You!"

"Happy Holidays!", "Merry Christmas!" "Happy Hanukkah!"
Response: "Thank You!" or repeat what the other one said.

On 3/7/2020 at 6:25 PM, nigel99 said:

I’ll be praying for them’ is frankly a cop out to make you feel good about yourself

and why shouldn't you feel good about yourself? It's more likely an expression of the fact that the person did feel some empathy and at the same time did not feel very empowered to do much about the situation.

On 3/7/2020 at 6:25 PM, nigel99 said:

and absolve your guilt. 

What are you? Catholic? Guilt shouldn't be absolved so easily? They need to donate some money? Or chant 50 hail mary's ? 

 

Now yes, if the person posting, asked for specific help, maybe it's a bit of a cop-out (depending on the other person's relationship with them), but so is not responding at all. How much money did you send?

[billvon 2,384]

20 hours ago, Channman said:

You a bit hostel to Christian Folk?  Husbands are to love their wives has Christ Loved the church and gave himself to the church and laid his life down for it. 

We've hosteled quite a few Christian folk.  (I think; generally I didn't ask their religion.)  We had Molly stay with us for almost a year.  Meredith is staying with us now.

Quote

Maybe you have the bible mixed up with the actions of Muslim men.

There it is!  You go.

Quote

Christian misogyny...so what you are saying is Christian's have a dislike, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.  Is that truly what you think?

Some do, most don't.  We had family friends when I was a kid we knew through church.  My parents were talking to them when I was a kid and the guy told my father "I don't understand why you let your wife work."  More recently an engineer giving a talk at my company spoke on the topic of network analyzers.  At one point someone (a woman) asked him a question.  The next question came from a guy, and after he answered he said "of course, women shouldn't be using network analyzers to begin with.  They should be in the home."  The moderator very quickly ended the talk.

[Channman 2]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Maybe YOU should look in a mirror sometime.

I don't have any hostility toward Christian Folks...if that is what your implying.

[wmw999 2,116]

I don’t think it’s prejudice against Christians he was talking about. 

Wendy P. 

[Channman 2]

23 minutes ago, billvon said:

We've hosteled quite a few Christian folk.  (I think; generally I didn't ask their religion.)  We had Molly stay with us for almost a year.  Meredith is staying with us now.

There it is!  You go.

Some do, most don't.  We had family friends when I was a kid we knew through church.  My parents were talking to them when I was a kid and the guy told my father "I don't understand why you let your wife work."  More recently an engineer giving a talk at my company spoke on the topic of network analyzers.  At one point someone (a woman) asked him a question.  The next question came from a guy, and after he answered he said "of course, women shouldn't be using network analyzers to begin with.  They should be in the home."  The moderator very quickly ended the talk.

Well, I've been in the working world for sometime and haven't seen that to my knowledge.  I do know individuals of faith that hold that opinion but they are extremely rare to come across, well at least in my circle. I believe possibly a good example of what your speaking to is a family like the Yates.  Yes, I would agree that Russel Yates ran his house and possible his wife in a manner that may have been the catalyst for Andrea Yates to drown her five children in a bath tube.  I worked at NASA at the time, but never knew him, as my time was spent training astronauts in the water tank (NBL).  I do think in Russel's case...he had some serious belief issues.  But I don't think most of us could walk outside our home and point out individuals like him on a daily bases.

[Channman 2]

Just now, wmw999 said:

I don’t think it’s prejudice against Christians he was talking about. 

Wendy P. 

I just want him to be clear.  I have issues, but I working on being as nice as John...I'm a work in progress.

[billvon 2,384]

6 minutes ago, Channman said:

But I don't think most of us could walk outside our home and point out individuals like him on a daily bases.

Likely true.  But keep in mind that a great many people see Christian men like you see Muslim men - and can point to specific examples as well as you can.

[Channman 2]

18 minutes ago, billvon said:

Likely true.  But keep in mind that a great many people see Christian men like you see Muslim men - and can point to specific examples as well as you can.

Touche

[nigel99 143]

6 hours ago, mbohu said:

Oh man! Seriously? Here are some suggested simple responses:

"I am praying for you" "I'm sending good vibes"
Response: "Thank You!"

"Happy Holidays!", "Merry Christmas!" "Happy Hanukkah!"
Response: "Thank You!" or repeat what the other one said.

and why shouldn't you feel good about yourself? It's more likely an expression of the fact that the person did feel some empathy and at the same time did not feel very empowered to do much about the situation.

What are you? Catholic? Guilt shouldn't be absolved so easily? They need to donate some money? Or chant 50 hail mary's ? 

 

Now yes, if the person posting, asked for specific help, maybe it's a bit of a cop-out (depending on the other person's relationship with them), but so is not responding at all. How much money did you send?

It is a total cop out. If you care send money. You want my response to that particular post - nothing to the people involved. No prayers, no vibes, no money. Why? Because frankly my life is full to the limit supporting my wife who has health problems and an ageing father. 
 

I can totally agree that people feel empathy and can’t make a difference, heck I would put myself in that category. But perhaps the right and honest response is ‘Hey, I’m really sorry to hear about your situation and I would love to help but unfortunately I can’t’.

Why does the ‘I’m praying for you’ get under my skin so much? Because I grew up surrounded by the hypocrisy of that. The phrase was thrown about, but it was obvious it was empty platitudes. Obviously there are exceptions and I know there are religious people who genuinely do pray for those they say they will

[Coreece 189]

9 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Why does the ‘I’m praying for you’ get under my skin so much? Because I grew up surrounded by the hypocrisy of that.

Who gives a shit.  I grew up in the inner city surrounded by blacks that beat the shit out of me, robbed me and shot at me, but that doesn't give me the right to stereotype, become a racist bigot and whinge about it all fucking day on the internet. 

Fuckin' grow up and get over it.

[mbohu 77]

25 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Hey, I’m really sorry to hear about your situation and I would love to help but unfortunately I can’t’

...and that is exactly what I hear, when someone writes "praying for you." It's just a different way of saying exactly the same thing.
And to them, I'm sure it is absolutely honest. "Praying" may mean that they actually include the person in their formal evening prayer, and they may actually use words--but it may also simply mean to them, that at the moment they are writing this, they are sending a quick thought or intention into the "ether" (or to whatever being they imagine receives such things)
Sorry you grew up with hypocrisy, but in this case you are projecting your past pain onto something that isn't necessarily the same or even related.

[billvon 2,384]

4 hours ago, Coreece said:

Who gives a shit.

You, apparently.  

[JoeWeber 2,294]

On 3/11/2020 at 5:00 PM, Channman said:

You a bit hostel to Christian Folk?

Don't jump to conclusions. Maybe he just likes lions.

[airdvr 197]

This thread reminds me of one of my all time favorite songs...

People, what have you done
Locked Him in His golden cage
Golden cage

Made Him bend to your religion
Him resurrected from the grave
From the grave

 

He is the God of nothing
If that's all that you can see
You are the God of everything
He's inside you and me

 

So lean upon Him gently
And don't call on Him to save you
From your social graces
And the sins you used waive
You used to waive

 

The bloody Church of England
In chains of history
Requests your earthly presence at
The vicarage for tea

 

And the graven image you know
With His plastic crucifix …he's got him fixed
Confuses me as to who and where and why
As to how he gets his kicks, he gets his kicks

 

Confessing to the endless sin
The endless whining sounds
You'll be praying till next Thursday
To all the gods that you can count

[kallend 1,621]

Doesn't god send plagues to send a message to the Pharoah?

Sending a plague that preferentially kills off old people who are far more likely to vote for Trump, while just being a minor inconvenience to the young, seems like a pretty clear message.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

32 minutes ago, kallend said:

that preferentially kills off old people who are far more likely to vote for Trump

Hi John,

WOW!  I'm glad you worded it like that.  You had this old person concerned for a moment.  

Jerry Baumchen

[turtlespeed 212]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

Doesn't god send plagues to send a message to the Pharoah?

Sending a plague that preferentially kills off old people who are far more likely to vote for Trump, while just being a minor inconvenience to the young, seems like a pretty clear message.

The most disgusting part about this post, is that he's probably dead serious.

[gowlerk 1,903]

32 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

The most disgusting part about this post, is that he's probably dead serious.

That's our Turtle alright. Always claiming to be misunderstood and always deliberately misunderstanding others. Although John is now American his humour and way of expressing himself is still very much English.