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gowlerk

covid-19

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11 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

No one ever said he didn't utter the specific words.

He did NOT suggest that people inject themselves, as so many would have you believe.

If that statement was unclear, and it raised questions, as it apparently did, then clarification was needed.  Evidently clarification was given as well.

He never said "oh minions, go try this at home." But neither did he say anything to suggest "don't try this at home." And when you're discussing an easy miracle cure, don't you think a lot of people are going to try it at home? It shows a pretty basic lack of understanding of or respect for cause and effect to say something like that and not figure people will try it out.

Wendy P.

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25 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

No one ever said he didn't utter the specific words.

He did NOT suggest that people inject themselves, as so many would have you believe.

If that statement was unclear, and it raised questions, as it apparently did, then clarification was needed.  Evidently clarification was given as well.

a) He didn't tell anyone specifically to inject themselves.

b) No media outlet is stating that he specifically told people to inject themselves - you've been corrected on this already.

c) Suggesting in a live broadcast that injection was a possibility worth investigating is the idea of a naive child or an adult moron.

d) Trump is 73.

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(edited)
50 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

He never said "oh minions, go try this at home." But neither did he say anything to suggest "don't try this at home." And when you're discussing an easy miracle cure, don't you think a lot of people are going to try it at home? It shows a pretty basic lack of understanding of or respect for cause and effect to say something like that and not figure people will try it out.

Wendy P.

Actually, I believe he said that it would all have to be done by doctors.

Quote

 So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. 

Was it a well thought out thing to say? No.

Has it been tortuously blown out of proportion by the media, yes.

 

Edited by turtlespeed

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The reference was unclear, just like a lot of things. He said "You're going to have to use doctors," but he wasn't real specific as to for what.

Here's the whole quote:

Quote

"So I asked Bill a question some of you are thinking of if you're into that world, which I find to be pretty interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether its ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way, and I think you said you're gonna test that too, sounds interesting. And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it goes in one minute, that's pretty powerful."

Remember this is a population that's being encouraged to dis science, because common sense is enough for a lot of stuff. And everyone has disinfectant and light around, so why not try? After all, high school students are making ventilator parts (of course, the in-depth article about the local college student who's made a splitter that measures the airflow also went into some detail about the formalized testing that's being done at a medical center, advised by several doctors and other engineers -- but who reads newspapers? That's mainstream news).

The larger the population, the more likely it is that there will be outliers of all kinds. Some of them will be high end, some low end. The high end outliers don't tend to do as many headline-worthy things.

Wendy P.

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13 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Has it been tortuously blown out of proportion by the media, yes.

No, it hasn't.  When the leader of the free world, being 100% serious, suggests disinfectant can be used as treatment via injection it deserves front page news.

Why?  It's not brainstorming, or coming up with new creative ideas or novel solutions.  It's beyond stupid.  And deserves all the derision, laughter, and scorn that it's received.  

Just admit it.  Trump is an idiot conman trying to peddle any potential cure in order to look like the hero who saved the day. 

No wonder the US has become the laughing stock of the world.  Kallend's post about the world pitying the US is spot on.

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10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Remember this is a population that's being encouraged to dis science, because common sense is enough for a lot of stuff.

Yes.  Alcohol and sunlight supposedly kill the corona, so if you see me drunk on the beach consider it medical research.

 

(lost internet meme)

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6 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Yes.  Alcohol and sunlight supposedly kill the corona, so if you see me drunk on the beach consider it medical research.

 

(lost internet meme)

Oh, I've seen that internet meme ^.^. Likewise the upended bottle of Corona, with "I'm doing research" as the caption.

Wendy P.

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(edited)
2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

He did NOT suggest that people inject themselves, as so many would have you believe.

Where's your evidence of all these people saying he suggested people inject themselves?

Quote

If that statement was unclear, and it raised questions, as it apparently did, then clarification was needed. 

And how ridiculous is that? That a statement so moronic and unnecessary at face value was also unclear enough that it could be interpreted in an even stupider way?

 

This is the behaviour you're willing to trample all over your own honesty and integrity in order to defend?

Edited by jakee

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1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Was it a well thought out thing to say? No.

Why do you think it wasn't a well thought out thing to say? You believe that the research he was suggesting is a good idea, even though he himself has attempted to dismiss it as sarcasm, and you don't believe anyone is stupid enough to cause themselves harm by misinterpreting it. So why is it that you think it wasn't well thought out?

Quote

Has it been tortuously blown out of proportion by the media, yes.

No it hasn't. The media has reported it accurately. You can only make the case that they blew it out of proportion by lying about their coverage.

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41 minutes ago, kallend said:

So Elon Musk was 100% wrong, but now he's pontificating about it again.

Maybe he should stick to what he knows.

He's pontificating because he's feeling the damage to the economy, as are many others.  There needs to be some balance between flattening the curve and flattening the economy.

Today Dewine extended the stay at home order until June 1.  This is a huge blow to small businesses everywhere.  It's out of balance with what's actually happening in Ohio.

I understand the scenario of allowing people some additional freedoms and bringing on a second wave of infections.

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5 minutes ago, jakee said:

You can only make the case that they blew it out of proportion by lying about their coverage.

The professional news media reported accurately. Then the internet, largely through memes blew it up out of proportion. So, you could easily blame the "media" if you mean social media. But that is what social media does.

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10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The professional news media reported accurately. Then the internet, largely through memes blew it up out of proportion. So, you could easily blame the "media" if you mean social media. But that is what social media does.

I give until the start of the week for someone to claim Trump was really playing the media deliberately, and by tricking them into writing about how stupid his comments were he was actually making himself look good and therefore winning. Somehow.

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10 minutes ago, jakee said:

I give until the start of the week for someone to claim Trump was really playing the media deliberately, and by tricking them into writing about how stupid his comments were he was actually making himself look good and therefore winning. Somehow.

My, oh My!!  You mean you are admitting that someone might try to spin something to their own view of thigs?  <Gasp>  Never has that ever happened, ever!!

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4 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

My, oh My!!  You mean you are admitting that someone might try to spin something to their own view of thigs?  <Gasp>  Never has that ever happened, ever!!

Eh? I know you don't pay much attention to what is actually said but surely it hasn't escaped even your notice that this is the standard Trump supporter's play on this forum. When you get to the point that you simply can't think of any more ways to defend his nonsense, claim he did it on purpose to distract the media from something else. 

 

By the way, it's also a bizarre suggestion that I can't conceive that anyone would spin things to their own view of things when I've just spent the last week calling you out on the lies that you've been telling while trying to spin things to your point of view. Again, I just can't understand how you've managed to miss that. 

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1 hour ago, airdvr said:

He's pontificating because he's feeling the damage to the economy, as are many others.  There needs to be some balance between flattening the curve and flattening the economy.

There is.  Florida is reopening soon.  California will go to stage 2 in a few weeks.  Alabama is reopening today.  Arizona is reopening restaurants in about two weeks.

Quote

Today Dewine extended the stay at home order until June 1.  

Some states did better than others during the shutdown; other states still have rising infection rates.  It is infection/death rates and testing capability that will determine when states reopen.

Sucks that some people couldn't be bothered to shelter in place, eh?  Almost as if there are consequences for actions.

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3 minutes ago, billvon said:

Some states did better than others during the shutdown; other states still have rising infection rates.  It is infection/death rates and testing capability that will determine when states reopen.

Everyone wants to do the right thing. No one really knows what the right thing is. The fighting over different plans and different points of view has already been nasty, but tempered by enormous social pressure to not make people sick. All that is about to change. We are in for a VERY nasty battle with high emotions on both sides. And it is going to last for months.

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Everyone wants to do the right thing. No one really knows what the right thing is. 

I disagree there.

I'm willing to bet that a fairly large percentage of people just don't care enough about others to want to do the right thing if it affects them personally.

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Everyone wants to do the right thing.

Not in my experience.  A former neighbor of mine is on Facebook is bragging how he's going out without a mask and standing close to people because he is courageous and "refuses to cower in terror."  When I pointed out he was putting other people at risk, he said "well then let them wear masks if they are so scared."

Some people just don't care.

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38 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I disagree there.

I'm willing to bet that a fairly large percentage of people just don't care enough about others to want to do the right thing if it affects them personally.

I don't think it's so much not caring as it is self preservation.  Let's take a look at the current Ohio numbers

Population      11,646,273

Reported infections  - 18,027  % of population  .0015

Deaths - 975  % of population  0.00837

So the risk is extremely low here.  Opening the economy could cause a spike but we are nowhere near the projections of 45 days ago.

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44 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I don't think it's so much not caring as it is self preservation.  Let's take a look at the current Ohio numbers

Population      11,646,273

Reported infections  - 18,027  % of population  .0015

Deaths - 975  % of population  0.00837

So the risk is extremely low here.  Opening the economy could cause a spike but we are nowhere near the projections of 45 days ago.

Ohio is also at pretty much at the absolute bottom of testing per 1 million people. Easy to have very little infections when you simply don't test for it.

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(edited)
12 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Not sure where you're seeing those numbers.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/27/coronavirus-many-states-short-of-testing-levels-needed-for-safe-reopening/

Ohio shows pretty good on this map.  None of the states are where they need to be.

I think you're reading that data wrong.   It's in fact saying that Ohio would need to perform more than 14k tests daily to come up to the baseline testing recommended by the Fed in order to open by 5/1

Edited by lummy

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