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gowlerk

covid-19

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22 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

As a matter of fact it took me a few minutes to find that it comes from "Epoch Times" and here is the AP story debunking it.

From Reuters:

===========================

Fact Check-Study did not conclude that people who have been infected with COVID-19 are protected for life

A study published by researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis did not conclude that people who have had COVID-19 are protected for life, despite claims made online.

The study cited as proof on social media that infection leads to life-long protection from COVID-19 was released in May 2021 in the journal Nature is viewable (here).

 . . .

Ellebedy told Reuters that the study did not show nor claim that people infected from mild SARS-CoV-2 infection are protected for a lifetime.

“Having detectable antibody response in blood for life does NOT equal being ‘protected’ for life. Not all antibodies are protective especially if the virus they are raised against is constantly changing,” Ellebedy told Reuters.

==============

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-study-covid19-idUSL1N2T71XL

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

As a matter of fact it took me a few minutes to find that it comes from "Epoch Times" and here is the AP story debunking it.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-558851199032  

Thanks for doing the research, your skills are better than mine. Plus, I'm buried in an SS/Medicare issue.

The article you linked clarifies that prior infection doesn't provide lifelong protection, especially from variants. Makes sense, just like the shot. It goes on to say, "like the vaccination, it may reduce the chances of severe illness."

Back to my main comment - It seems that we should be recognizing prior infection on an equal footing with vaccination.

 

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Just now, billeisele said:

Back to my main comment - It seems that we should be recognizing prior infection on an equal footing with vaccination.

Not according to what we know at this point. But we do know that prior infection plus vaccination provides a lot of protection. Why do you think we should neglect vaccination and take a chance when we don't have too? What is your agenda here? 

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2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Not according to what we know at this point. But we do know that prior infection plus vaccination provides a lot of protection. Why do you think we should neglect vaccination and take a chance when we don't have too? What is your agenda here? 

No agenda. I didn't say "neglect vaccination." Just asking a simple question.

The EU puts prior infection on the same footing as vaccination. On the European Commission website it says this about EU Digital COVID Certificates:

"The information contained in the EU Digital COVID Certificate is limited to what is necessary to provide the certification requested. Such information includes name, date of birth, the certificate issuer and a unique identifier of the certificate. In addition:

  • For a vaccination certificate: vaccine type and manufacturer, number of doses received, date of vaccination;
  • For a test certificate: type of test, date and time of test, place and result;
  • For a recovery certificate: date of positive test result, validity period."
  •  

It goes to numbers: XX% vaccinated + XX% with prior infection = % of population "protected". What number did they say for herd immunity?

I've seen numbers suggested in the range of 70 - 90%. This Mayo Clinic article doesn't state a % but does talk about the value of prior infection.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

 

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57 minutes ago, billeisele said:

The EU puts prior infection on the same footing as vaccination.

The EU also has universal healthcare, maybe you should ask for that as well. Yes they issue recovery certificates and those grant the right for EU citizens to travel within the EU. This does not mean that all EU governments treat past cases the same as vaccinated people. Many countries within the EU have mandates, especially for healthcare workers. So far the CDC says that those with past cases have some protection, but they still get re-infected at twice the rate that the vaccinated do. Omicron seems particularly able to infect both groups. Right now getting vaccinated seems to provide more protection for both groups. There are unanswered questions and as more information comes in the picture may change. Right now there is a crisis and there is no real reason not to get vaccinated. It may be like having an AAD. You probably don't need it, but you will drop the $1200 anyway because it is best practice. Getting people vaccinated is best practice in this crisis.

We need all hands on deck. Many people are suffering from other conditions because the hospitals are jammed. We can sort out the best vaccine regime later when we have more data. Clearly one dose followed by a second in 3 weeks and a third in 6 months is nothing more than an estimate. And so is the effect of prior infection. We want to do our best, it is not time to look for the easiest thing that might work. It is time to pull together and do everything we can. 

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2 hours ago, billeisele said:

Back to my main comment - It seems that we should be recognizing prior infection on an equal footing with vaccination.

I'd be fine with recognizing a recent antibody test on an equal footing with vaccination.  (You can't really do "prior infection" because every anti-vaxxer out there will lie about that.)

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4 hours ago, headoverheels said:

In 2020 the unnecessary deaths in the USA were due to the crummy health care system and Trump's delaying and denial:
https://ncdp.columbia.edu/custom-content/uploads/2020/10/Avoidable-COVID-19-Deaths-US-NCDP.pdf

Now the unnecessary deaths are due to crass stupidity on the part of people like this "fallen brother".

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LA Times, DEC. 24, 2021 5 AM PT

COLTON — 

Nine patients awaited their fate in an intensive care unit at the Arrowhead Regional Medical Center.

The youngest was 26, the oldest 66. Four of them had already been intubated, a last-ditch effort to save their lives. Inside fourth-floor rooms bare of decor, they lay alone in the dark, flat on their belly and sedated because the pain of the tube running down their throat would be too great otherwise.

. . . .

“It’s definitely frustrating, especially when now the vaccine makes it almost preventable to be in this state,” said ICU charge nurse Beth Koelliker, gesturing at the rooms behind her. On a recent Sunday, three people died.

The needlessness of it all, demoralizing.

“Patients are still dying at an alarming rate, all unvaccinated,” she said. “They haven’t stopped dying for two years. It’s hard to deal with that for so long.”

. . .

In San Bernardino County, only 59% of residents of all ages have received at least one dose of vaccine. The mortality rate among the unvaccinated in the county is nearly 10 times higher than for those who are fully vaccinated, according to county data.

“It is a wake-up call for those still remaining unvaccinated, or those who have not yet gotten their boosters who are eligible to do so,” said Dr. Robert Kim-Farley, an epidemiologist and infectious-diseases expert at the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health. “The severe hospitalizations and deaths that are occurring now are virtually all preventable, had people simply gotten the vaccine.”

. . .

As Koelliker ran through the ages of each patient — in their 60s, 50s, 40s and 20s — it illustrated another trend that healthcare workers in the county have seen in the last six months: Patients are younger than they were at the beginning of the pandemic.

“Patients are still dying at an alarming rate, all unvaccinated. They haven’t stopped dying for two years. It’s hard to deal with that for so long.”

. . .

Koelliker recalled the patients who had died. One was a newlywed who had just married a week prior. There was a mother and son. A patient with a newborn.

The three who died on Sunday had all been unvaccinated, Koelliker said. By the time they had reached the ICU, it was too late for the vaccine to offer them any hope.

Although some patients voice regret about not getting vaccinated, others are adamant that they still won’t do so, Koelliker said.

She expressed frustration that members of her own family have also resisted getting vaccinated.

“I can see it here with my own eyes,” Koelliker said. “We’re still having patients die on us.”

“If they could see what we see,” Hernandez said.

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19 hours ago, billeisele said:

Back to my main comment - It seems that we should be recognizing prior infection on an equal footing with vaccination.

I think that depends on how you define vaccination. If by vaccination you mean two shots, then it seems that prior infection is similar to double vaccination and really doesn't provide too much protection. 

If by vaccination you mean double + booster, then it does not seem to compare when it comes to the Omicron variant.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

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2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

I think that depends on how you define vaccination. If by vaccination you mean two shots, then it seems that prior infection is similar to double vaccination and really doesn't provide too much protection. 

If by vaccination you mean double + booster, then it does not seem to compare when it comes to the Omicron variant.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

Thanks for the link and accurate summary. Clearly there is more to learn.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, billvon said:

That's happened to me.

Where I live everyone wears masks in stores or other indoor public spaces. Complaining about it ended months ago, it is no longer an issue. But I must admit, when I am elsewhere I just do what the locals do. If employees are masked I am as well. Otherwise, what's the point?

Edited by gowlerk

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19 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Otherwise, what's the point?

Masks still work both ways if you are wearing them.  (i.e. if you're sick you reduce the odds of making other people sick, and if THEY are sick it reduces your odds of becoming infected.)  At that point we had two unvaccinated kids with us so we were doing everything we could to protect them.  Even when picking up takeout in a roadhouse in Montana.

 

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On 12/24/2021 at 5:11 PM, billeisele said:

Thanks for the link and accurate summary. Clearly there is more to learn.

 

 

There's a lot more to learn. 

This is a virus that hadn't been seen before it appeared two years ago.

BUT (and it's an important 'but'), there's a lot about viruses in general that we DO know.

And we've learned a lot about Covid-19 in the past two years, including how to create a vaccine to help prevent it (not perfectly, but no vax is).

The part that's infuriating is how many people simply refuse to believe it.

They pretend it's a 'hoax'.
Or that the vax is killing people.

Or that they won't get it.
Or if they do get it, it will be 'just like the flu'. 

So many of them have wrapped up their 'tribal identity' (political views) in it.

The unvaxed are dying by the thousands.
Something like 80% of them are Trump supporters.

If they weren't overloading the health care system I really wouldn't care (regardless of their political alignments). 
If they want to risk dying because of their idiocy, that's on them.

But they're filling the hospitals.
To the point that other people, people with legitimate health issues, people that DID take proper precautions, get vaxed, ect are being denied care because of the morons. 

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I'm going to let you in on a secret. After they inject that "vaccine" in your arm while you are not looking they pull back on the plunger. Why? Because that's how they remove your freedom from you. Don't tell anyone I told you.

Edited by gowlerk

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On 12/23/2021 at 4:57 PM, gowlerk said:

 

I will note that even Donald Trump, famously infected with the virus has been triple vaccinated since then and encourages others to do the same.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/23/politics/trump-vaccine-covid-effectiveness/index.html

 

I expect someone finally told him that his supporters are dying at 10x the rate of Biden's supporters.

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3 hours ago, kallend said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/23/politics/trump-vaccine-covid-effectiveness/index.html

 

I expect someone finally told him that his supporters are dying at 10x the rate of Biden's supporters.

I have it from inside sources that trump's accountant told him donations to trumps personal charities has been drying up.

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