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gowlerk

covid-19

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2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Oh come on -- you remember all the stories of people who were saved because they were ejected from their cars, or were able to escape from a burning vehicle because they weren't belted in, etc. You're old enough to remember the "they can't make me" wars...

At least as valid as many of the anti-vax arguments.

Wendy P.

I have two family members who are alive because they did not wear a seat belt. I still wear a seat belt...every time.

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9 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

I have two family members who are alive because they did not wear a seat belt. I still wear a seat belt...every time.

lol what does that even mean. How do you know they would have died if they would have worn a seatbelt? i have been in a vehicle that was completely underwater and fully flooded. I was still able to get out of the seatbelt and swim to the surface. 

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2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

I have two family members who are alive because they did not wear a seat belt. I still wear a seat belt...every time.

I was in a '68 Mustang where the point of impact was the door against which I was leaning, and my pelvis would have been crushed if there had been a seatbelt (I would have worn it if available).

I'm with you, I wear a seatbelt if the car is moving and a really good helmet when on motorcycles.

 

 

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My wife, who normally works in an out patient eye surgery clinic doing pre and post op nursing, or as I like to say "helping the blind to see", has just been informed that most likely she will be reassigned into an ICU unit to help with the current surge in about a week. Mostly caused by anti-vaxxers in our small but stubborn conservative bible belt. She had to do it for a while earlier this year and she hates it because she is not trained and is afraid of making an error there. 

I have no patience for anti-vaxxers. None.

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16 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

My wife, who normally works in an out patient eye surgery clinic doing pre and post op nursing, or as I like to say "helping the blind to see", has just been informed that most likely she will be reassigned into an ICU unit to help with the current surge in about a week. Mostly caused by anti-vaxxers in our small but stubborn conservative bible belt. She had to do it for a while earlier this year and she hates it because she is not trained and is afraid of making an error there. 

I have no patience for anti-vaxxers. None.

Man I hear you. If it helps, I still have a packer slot she can have and an awesome RV slot. I am here for you brother.

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1 hour ago, yoink said:

This whole thread (in fact, this whole pandemic) has shown just how poor the average ability to use basic maths or analyse data really is, imo.

Hi Will,

And, IMO what is worse is that they do not want to learn 'to use basic maths or analyse data.'  They seem to revel in their ignorance.

Jerry Baumchen

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35 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Will,

And, IMO what is worse is that they do not want to learn 'to use basic maths or analyse data.'  They seem to revel in their ignorance.

Jerry Baumchen

Not sure they want to revel in it; just want it to be good enough because it always has been. Just like being male was always good enough, and you’re not racist as long as you don’t call someone the n-word to their face. 
Like it always was. Because then you don’t have to change, and change is hard  

Wendy P. 

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Meanwhile the Netherlands have gone into what is referred to as a three week long 'mild' lockdown. In a surprising turn of events the politicians have started to listen to the outbreak management team again when infections hit 16K a day.

Restaurants and bars close early (take out/delivery still possible), non-essential services close at six, essential services at seven.

Exceptions are made for cultural participation (cinema's, theaters, concerts) and sports.
Eligibility(?) for access is tested with a QR code. You can get such a QR-code by vaccination, fraud, or testing.

Our politicians are now considering to abolish the third of these methods in favour of the other two, since the unvaccinated are more likely to catch covid at controlled events and also more likely to spread it due to the fact that they are not only more likely to get sick, but also more likely to have like-minded contacts.

I want to make clear that I differentiate between "unvaccinated" and "anti-vax", the latter of which I see as rabid troublemakers who do not deserve any kind of consideration. As to the first, it's not so clear cut. There the choice/consequences argument comes into play.

Unpopular opnion: In my (anecdotal) experience, the unvaccinated are not the only problem, it's also the 'invincible' vaccinated people. Thise who think that because they are vaccinated they do not have to stay at home when they have symptoms, let alone get tested. I personally know two of those people, both in their sixties/seventies.

If we want to control the infection rate I am convinced that banning the unvaccinated is not the way to go. I would argue to implement more testing for access to events, bars, etc. Such a test is valid for X amount of time. 
The only difference is that if you are vaccinated you get a certain number of tests per week/month for free, if you are unvaccinated you have to pay for them.

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9 hours ago, Baksteen said:

Meanwhile the Netherlands have gone into what is referred to as a three week long 'mild' lockdown. In a surprising turn of events the politicians have started to listen to the outbreak management team again when infections hit 16K a day.

Restaurants and bars close early (take out/delivery still possible), non-essential services close at six, essential services at seven.

Exceptions are made for cultural participation (cinema's, theaters, concerts) and sports.
Eligibility(?) for access is tested with a QR code. You can get such a QR-code by vaccination, fraud, or testing.

Our politicians are now considering to abolish the third of these methods in favour of the other two, since the unvaccinated are more likely to catch covid at controlled events and also more likely to spread it due to the fact that they are not only more likely to get sick, but also more likely to have like-minded contacts.

I want to make clear that I differentiate between "unvaccinated" and "anti-vax", the latter of which I see as rabid troublemakers who do not deserve any kind of consideration. As to the first, it's not so clear cut. There the choice/consequences argument comes into play.

Unpopular opnion: In my (anecdotal) experience, the unvaccinated are not the only problem, it's also the 'invincible' vaccinated people. Thise who think that because they are vaccinated they do not have to stay at home when they have symptoms, let alone get tested. I personally know two of those people, both in their sixties/seventies.

If we want to control the infection rate I am convinced that banning the unvaccinated is not the way to go. I would argue to implement more testing for access to events, bars, etc. Such a test is valid for X amount of time. 
The only difference is that if you are vaccinated you get a certain number of tests per week/month for free, if you are unvaccinated you have to pay for them.

Yup, the Netherlands is a bit of a mess. I have a fully vaccinated aunt who just tested positive. She is a police officer, hard to stay away from public. An elderly uncle who tested negative after an exposure and a set of parents who are hunkering down once again. Their pre-existing conditions will make an infection a likely death sentence.

The Netherlands seems to have a high vaccination rate, showing that social distancing and masking remain important!

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9 hours ago, Baksteen said:

Meanwhile the Netherlands have gone into what is referred to as a three week long 'mild' lockdown. In a surprising turn of events the politicians have started to listen to the outbreak management team again when infections hit 16K a day.

Restaurants and bars close early (take out/delivery still possible), non-essential services close at six, essential services at seven.

Exceptions are made for cultural participation (cinema's, theaters, concerts) and sports.
Eligibility(?) for access is tested with a QR code. You can get such a QR-code by vaccination, fraud, or testing.

Our politicians are now considering to abolish the third of these methods in favour of the other two, since the unvaccinated are more likely to catch covid at controlled events and also more likely to spread it due to the fact that they are not only more likely to get sick, but also more likely to have like-minded contacts.

I want to make clear that I differentiate between "unvaccinated" and "anti-vax", the latter of which I see as rabid troublemakers who do not deserve any kind of consideration. As to the first, it's not so clear cut. There the choice/consequences argument comes into play.

Unpopular opnion: In my (anecdotal) experience, the unvaccinated are not the only problem, it's also the 'invincible' vaccinated people. Thise who think that because they are vaccinated they do not have to stay at home when they have symptoms, let alone get tested. I personally know two of those people, both in their sixties/seventies.

If we want to control the infection rate I am convinced that banning the unvaccinated is not the way to go. I would argue to implement more testing for access to events, bars, etc. Such a test is valid for X amount of time. 
The only difference is that if you are vaccinated you get a certain number of tests per week/month for free, if you are unvaccinated you have to pay for them.

As an aside, I've spent a fair bit of time in the Dutch West Indies the last couple of years and, especially during early Covid, observed a lot of resistance to any authority, measures etc. amongst the Dutch inhabitants.

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On another forum yesterday, a poster described a new type of Covidiot for which he coined the term "Invincible Vaccinated". This is someone who has been fully vaccinated, and now thinks they are totally bullet-proof, and drops all other measures of avoidance, e.g. masking, avoiding indoor crowds, and avoiding congregations of the unvaccinated. And in the extreme, they even refuse to get tested if they show symptoms of a breakthrough infection, because "it can't possibly be COVID-19"

The poster stated he has two personal acquaintances who fit this full description.

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13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

As an aside, I've spent a fair bit of time in the Dutch West Indies the last couple of years and, especially during early Covid, observed a lot of resistance to any authority, measures etc. amongst the Dutch inhabitants.

Yes, we have as many covidiots (called "wappies" in Dutch) as any other nation.

I can understand the grumbling in the early days, when Covid was some faraway thing which would maybe impact a few people. I myself have learned a lot in the past year and a half.

And then, at some point during the pandemic the government started emphasising in their press conferences that they could understand "how limiting the covid measures are" and "that people were tired of the measures, but hold on we're nearly there" etc. 
Worst are statements like "curfews are un-Dutch measures", only to have to implement them a month later anyway.
This, coupled with unrealistic timelines and ever changing "roadmaps" illlustrating the measures to be taken cost them a lot of credit.

This is besides the fact that there is also a political kindergarten which is called "formation of a new government after the election".

Fortunately most Dutch people got their vaccinations and keep at least some semblence of adhering to the preventive measures.
 

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7 hours ago, ryoder said:

On another forum yesterday, a poster described a new type of Covidiot for which he coined the term "Invincible Vaccinated". This is someone who has been fully vaccinated, and now thinks they are totally bullet-proof, and drops all other measures of avoidance, e.g. masking, avoiding indoor crowds, and avoiding congregations of the unvaccinated. And in the extreme, they even refuse to get tested if they show symptoms of a breakthrough infection, because "it can't possibly be COVID-19"

The poster stated he has two personal acquaintances who fit this full description.

They sound like they are a very intelligent and charming person.

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On 11/11/2021 at 12:40 PM, billvon said:

The whole ivermectin thing got started when two studies found it was effective.  They were pulled shortly thereafter for falsifying data.  But that started the ball rolling.  Several subsequent studies showing no benefit did not affect the ivermectin craze.  

Are these the studies you referred to?

Ivermectin in COVID meta analysis - Andrew Hill (1).pdf Ivermectin in COVID meta analysis - Bryant and Lawrie (1).pdf

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The Covidiots are reaching a new level of stupid.

While they are submitting to the vax mandates in order to keep their jobs, they're also going after quack 'remedies' that will 'detox' the vax from them. 
About as effective as the garbage they like to promote instead of the actual vax, some of it is, not surprisingly, a bit dangerous.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/covid-vaccine-mandates-push-holdouts-get-shot-detox-rcna4859?fbclid=IwAR2ysz-kXPCdJ3nlUXRnRZSI8fFT4NQKYQFE7XJtgcma4g73Xgz5WOQGuDg

Also, on a slightly different level of stupid, a bunch of folks in Greece bribed a clinic to inject them with sterile saline instead of the vax. That way they could pretend to be vaxxed and avoid the required, repeated test protocol. 
While it seems that some folks were successful in avoiding the vax, others were actually vaxxedby doctors who weren't willing to risk the consequences of faxing a vaccination (Note: This may be a repost. I've seen it before and can't remember if it was here or somewhere else).

 

https://www.timesnownews.com/the-buzz/article/anti-vaxxers-bribe-doctors-for-fake-vaccines-in-greece-end-up-receiving-real-doses/829999

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7 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

While it seems that some folks were successful in avoiding the vax, others were actually vaxxedby doctors who weren't willing to risk the consequences of faxing a vaccination (Note: This may be a repost. I've seen it before and can't remember if it was here or somewhere else)

Like I mentioned before, this is another win/win.  Anti-vaxxers are happy and feel like they "pulled one over on the Deep State/New World Order/Bill Gates."  Vaccination rates go up and the pandemic gets a little closer to being under control.

I think we should make this official.  Have a service that, for a nominal fee, will inject you with something that is 99% saline, with a few other passive non-DNA ingredients.  Market it on Facebook as "Fauci does NOT WANT YOU TO LEARN about this!"  The anti-vaxxers will decide that sounds good and get it.  And the people doing it will make a bit of money.  Again, win-win.

 

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17 hours ago, ryoder said:

On another forum yesterday, a poster described a new type of Covidiot for which he coined the term "Invincible Vaccinated". This is someone who has been fully vaccinated, and now thinks they are totally bullet-proof, and drops all other measures of avoidance, e.g. masking, avoiding indoor crowds, and avoiding congregations of the unvaccinated. And in the extreme, they even refuse to get tested if they show symptoms of a breakthrough infection, because "it can't possibly be COVID-19"

The poster stated he has two personal acquaintances who fit this full description.

Upon reflection, I never accused my acquaintances of malicious malconformance. You draw much harsher conclusions than I intended. Nor did I say they ""drop all other measures of avoidance, e.g. masking, avoiding indoor crowds, and avoiding congregations of the unvaccinated", though to be entirely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if these measures were also less strictly observed.

Complacency perhaps, or just plain and simple misunderstanding. I don;t really care.

 

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