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gowlerk

covid-19

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I’ve got to be honest. As someone who holds multiple ‘science’ degrees, married to someone with multiple degrees and a PhD in biological sciences, hearing a layperson tell me ‘they’ve done their research’ really makes me grind my teeth.

 

I watched a YouTube episode about doctors once. Come here, let me take out that kidney of yours.

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10 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I spent the morning touring the US Library of Congress. Looking at the recreation (so far) of Jefferson’s library, and considering that honest research into many western histories would have to include books in it gives one an entirely different perspective on the word “research.” Because in order to know when to start you have to have some idea of the boundaries. 
If you’re helping to establish the boundaries, you still have to have some idea of the old ones. 
I just don’t thing googling cuts it as anything other than picking a random direction much of the time. 
Wendy P. 

every book in that library has been digitized and can be found on google. you dont need to read any books, you can read a computer screen.

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16 hours ago, yoink said:

I’ve got to be honest. As someone who holds multiple ‘science’ degrees, married to someone with multiple degrees and a PhD in biological sciences, hearing a layperson tell me ‘they’ve done their research’ really makes me grind my teeth.

Why? I doubt a chef gets upset when a non-chef says they've prepared a nice dinner.

I am not a scientist, but I can still do my own research. Which would include finding out what the research done by scientists has shown.

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42 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Why? I doubt a chef gets upset when a non-chef says they've prepared a nice dinner.

I am not a scientist, but I can still do my own research. Which would include finding out what the research done by scientists has shown.

I'm not a Doctor, but I play one on TV.

Wait a minute.  I do have a Doctorate.

Disregard.

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6 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Why? I doubt a chef gets upset when a non-chef says they've prepared a nice dinner.

I am not a scientist, but I can still do my own research. Which would include finding out what the research done by scientists has shown.

I think you know what he was getting at: nobody has an issue with somebody doing research to educate themselves...when that 'research' is 30 seconds on The Googles to find a YouTube video that's pushing an agenda that disagrees with the consensus of the scientific community, then using that video as evidence that the scientists are all stupid egg-heads...that's where shit gets annoying.

Brent Hutch on here has done extensive climate research, for example.

 

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I know this is a rabid right wing website:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

but the data presented therein give me pause.

The years I wasted studying Probability, Statistics and Stochastic Processes have left me with the delusion that maybe there's something to this.

Again, from a Systems standpoint, any time someone submits a single-input single-output closed-form solution to a complex problem I get suspicious, but that's just me.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

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1 hour ago, winsor said:

Again, from a Systems standpoint, any time someone submits a single-input single-output closed-form solution to a complex problem I get suspicious, but that's just me.

What non-cartoon-character is doing that with any of the complex problems that we have in the world right now? I don't know of any. I do know people saying that if we can alleviate one thing, even if we can't alleviate others, then maybe we should do so.

Kind of like how they give diabetics insulin. That doesn't fix the broken pancreas, but it does alleviate the symptoms.

Wendy P.

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(edited)
3 hours ago, winsor said:

I know this is a rabid right wing website:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

but the data presented therein give me pause.

The years I wasted studying Probability, Statistics and Stochastic Processes have left me with the delusion that maybe there's something to this.

Again, from a Systems standpoint, any time someone submits a single-input single-output closed-form solution to a complex problem I get suspicious, but that's just me

Winsor, you're really starting to piss me off with your Brent impersonation. If you're going to provide information - it helps to read the whole thing - cause I can assure you that I will. You read the headline and skimmed it for those points that fit your argument, but you didn't actually read it. 

The study’s conclusion was not that vaccinations don’t impact infection, but that steps such as masking, social distancing, etc. should be used along with vaccination to fight the pandemic.

Quote

Importantly, other non-pharmacological prevention efforts (e.g., the importance of basic public health hygiene with regards to maintaining safe distance or handwashing, promoting better frequent and cheaper forms of testing) needs to be renewed in order to strike the balance of learning to live with COVID-19 in the same manner we continue to live a 100 years later with various seasonal alterations of the 1918 Influenza virus.

 

Edited by BIGUN
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(edited)
12 minutes ago, kallend said:

Getting my booster this afternoon. ^_^

Are you getting the same type as your first one, or a different one? 

I saw something a few days ago that was suggesting mixing vaccines seems like it has additional support. It particularly called out a mix of Johnson & Johnson with a Moderna booster as being super effective. 

Edit: 

Quick NY Times article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/19/health/covid-vaccine-mix-match.html

"The results for people who initially received a Johnson & Johnson vaccine were particularly striking. Those receiving a Johnson & Johnson booster saw antibodies go up just fourfold. Switching to a Pfizer-BioNTech booster raised antibody levels by a factor of 35. A Moderna booster raised them 76-fold"

I'll try and dig out the FDA article I saw if I have time today.

Edited by yoink

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2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Winsor, you're really starting to piss me off with your Brent impersonation. If you're going to provide information - it helps to read the whole thing - cause I can assure you that I will. You read the headline and skimmed it for those points that fit your argument, but you didn't actually read it. 

The study’s conclusion was not that vaccinations don’t impact infection, but that steps such as masking, social distancing, etc. should be used along with vaccination to fight the pandemic.

 

What makes you think I didn't read every word of it?

I'm vaccinated all to hell, and use every arrow in the quiver to reduce the likelihood that I will either contract the disease or suffer a bad outcome if I somehow do.

My point is that people who are fervent believers in the efficacy of the various vaccines should rethink their stance.  The statement from the White House to the effect that getting vaccinated guaranteed a positive outcome and eliminated the spread of disease, "full stop," is demonstrably bullshit.

How well does it work?  It rather depends on who you ask.

Right now the opinions of the various 'experts' are akin to those of Rabbis (put 4 Rabbis together and you'll get 6 opinions).

Anyhow, the data in the paper are interesting, and fly in the face of the blanket statements that have been proffered regarding immunization rates for 'herd immunity,' the level of protection afforded by immunization and so forth.  The fact that the societies with the highest immunization rates have higher infection rates than do societies with the lowest immunization rates proves nothing by itself, but is an interesting datum.

Lighten up.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

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(edited)
3 minutes ago, winsor said:

 

Right now the opinions of the various 'experts' are akin to those of Rabbis (put 4 Rabbis together and you'll get 6 opinions).

 

No. NO. 

No they're not. Not even nearly. 

The range of opinions will be a bell curve with outliers, sure. But the vast, vast, VAST majority of opinions will agree.

 

@mods Can we please get a disclaimer on Winsors posts? It's clear that he is spreading misinformation on this subject.

Edited by yoink

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4 minutes ago, winsor said:

  The statement from the White House to the effect that getting vaccinated guaranteed a positive outcome and eliminated the spread of disease, "full stop,"

Do you have a reference?

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1 hour ago, yoink said:

No. NO. 

No they're not. Not even nearly. 

The range of opinions will be a bell curve with outliers, sure. But the vast, vast, VAST majority of opinions will agree.

 

@mods Can we please get a disclaimer on Winsors posts? It's clear that he is spreading misinformation on this subject.

Yo' mama.

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2 hours ago, yoink said:

No. NO. 

No they're not. Not even nearly. 

The range of opinions will be a bell curve with outliers, sure. But the vast, vast, VAST majority of opinions will agree.

 

@mods Can we please get a disclaimer on Winsors posts? It's clear that he is spreading misinformation on this subject.

Hi Will,

I could not agree more.

Jerry Baumchen

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5 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi John,

Got mine yesterday; arm sore today.

And for Yoink:  Pfizer for all three jabs.

Jerry Baumchen

But it wasn't authorized until last night.  Are you a scofflaw?

I had Moderna shots originally and am getting the Pfizer/BioNTech booster.  My wife (MD) seems to think mixing is good.

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2 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Will,

I could not agree more.

Jerry Baumchen

I'm sure there are some specifics with which we would agree.

Over the course of the pandemic you've had a lot of back and forth about: masks yes or no, cloth, surgical or N-95, indoors only or outdoor as well; sneeze guards good or bad; natural origin or CRiSPR; ventilators or not; contaminated surface spread or primarily aerosol; vaccinated and you're in the clear or you may still get it and be infectious; human only or animal reservoir; herd immunity or not; so on ad nauseum.  All of these issues have been contested by personnel and/or organizations claiming expertise.

If you are either unaware of these things or consider them unimportant, xin loi.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

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25 minutes ago, kallend said:

But it wasn't authorized until last night.  Are you a scofflaw?

I had Moderna shots originally and am getting the Pfizer/BioNTech booster.  My wife (MD) seems to think mixing is good.

Hi John,

Maybe in your area.  I made my app't. about 2-3 weeks ago. *

My medical provider has converted one of their clinics to just a shot-only clinic.

It went far smoother than I expected.

Jerry Baumchen

* I do not know exactly when I made my app't., but I was out of state last week & I know I made it a fair amount of time before I departed.  Ergo, I say; about 2-3 weeks ago.

 

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23 minutes ago, winsor said:

I'm sure there are some specifics with which we would agree.

Over the course of the pandemic you've had a lot of back and forth about: masks yes or no, cloth, surgical or N-95, indoors only or outdoor as well; sneeze guards good or bad; natural origin or CRiSPR; ventilators or not; contaminated surface spread or primarily aerosol; vaccinated and you're in the clear or you may still get it and be infectious; human only or animal reservoir; herd immunity or not; so on ad nauseum.  All of these issues have been contested by personnel and/or organizations claiming expertise.

If you are either unaware of these things or consider them unimportant, xin loi.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Hi Winsor,

Just for one:  Where did I say that masks yes or no?

I have said that I do not like wearing a mask.  I have also said that I wear one because it is req'd & it is the right thing to do; or words to that effect.

Jerry Baumchen

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18 hours ago, lippy said:

I think you know what he was getting at: nobody has an issue with somebody doing research to educate themselves...when that 'research' is 30 seconds on The Googles to find a YouTube video that's pushing an agenda that disagrees with the consensus of the scientific community, then using that video as evidence that the scientists are all stupid egg-heads...that's where shit gets annoying.

Brent Hutch on here has done extensive climate research, for example.

Right, he made a broad statement about his dislike with laypeople saying they do research, cause as a scientist research has a very specific meaning.

In other words, he was generalizing about how he dislikes people not being specific and thorough.

I enjoyed the irony.

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1 hour ago, kallend said:

But it wasn't authorized until last night.  Are you a scofflaw?

I had Moderna shots originally and am getting the Pfizer/BioNTech booster.  My wife (MD) seems to think mixing is good.

I am. I got my third Pfizer shot 7 weeks ago at 5 months past prime based on a Ouija board study and the Israeli program. Their latest self serving report confirms my decision indicating a +95% increase in general hopefulness. Probably, I'll try the Moderna for my 4th dose just to mix things up.

BERLIN, Oct 21 (Reuters) - A booster dose of the COVID-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer Inc (PFE.N) and German partner BioNTech SE (22UAy.DE) was 95.6% effective against the coronavirus when compared to a vaccinated group that did not get the third shot, data from a large study released by the companies showed on Thursday.

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21 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Winsor,

Just for one:  Where did I say that masks yes or no?

I have said that I do not like wearing a mask.  I have also said that I wear one because it is req'd & it is the right thing to do; or words to that effect.

Jerry Baumchen

I didn't.

I have been wearing an N-95 as a matter of course since well before it became fashionable.

My point is that the WHO, CDC and Dr, Fauci went back and forth as to whether or not or by whom or when or quite why should masks be worn.

As far as medical professionals being in perfect agreement, to some extent they are.  According to the old advert, "9 out of 19 Doctors recommend Chesterfield cigarettes..." (I think that was the brand).

As far as providing unsafe medical advice goes, I can't recall recommending anything more dangerous than to do everything possible to avoid exposure, to minimize the inoculum if exposed, to maximize immunity and resistance by any means possible and to get the best treatment available.  

 

BSBD,

Winsor

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