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gowlerk

covid-19

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2 hours ago, base698 said:

All of the covid 19 vaccines are single antigen--not a vaccine.

This statement does not make any sense. Covid-19 vaccines are vaccines. Meaning, they show a part of the virus to the immune system (via single protein, disabled virus, etc).

It's up to the vaccinated person's immune system to then decide WHERE to focus the immune response.

And it won't be perfect since we can't completely control our immune systems - for example, mine likes to focus on grass pollen in the summer, much to my dismay and discomfort.

But the mRNA vaccines minimise this by presenting nothing else except the spike protein, which is a really impressive technological feat.

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5 minutes ago, olofscience said:

So it's ironic that in such exciting times with medical technology, people are turning to horse paste because of misinformation.

It is impressive they got through the red tape of the FDA to deploy it at all.

The horse paste is a bit of propaganda too, considering ivermectin won the Nobel prize for parasites in humans and some doctors are prescribing it.  There is the errant person using vet meds for it, but it's disingenuous.  

That said I have no opinions on its effectiveness against covid and wouldn't take it myself.

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18 minutes ago, base698 said:

It's not cumulative. 

Right.  They are not cumulative.  That's why you have to add the 0-4 hospitalizations and the 5-17 hospitalizations.  (There was a typo in my post which has since been fixed; I typed 5-1 instead of 5-17.)

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10 minutes ago, base698 said:

It is impressive they got through the red tape of the FDA to deploy it at all.

The horse paste is a bit of propaganda too, considering ivermectin won the Nobel prize for parasites in humans and some doctors are prescribing it.  There is the errant person using vet meds for it, but it's disingenuous.

Sadly it is a pretty big problem.

On Facebook I have seen posts where right wingers give each other advice on the proper dose for equine ivermectin; one noted that it tasted pretty good.  A right wing friend of mine is taking it regularly here in San Diego.  Kansas is imploring people to not take it since they have been seeing a lot of ivermectin abusers showing up in their ER's.  In Missouri Dr. Steven Brown said that he has "seen people with ivermectin toxicity in the emergency room from taking the animal formulation. I’ve seen people who relied on ivermectin to prevent themselves from getting COVID who are on ventilators and who have died.”  In Mississippi, 2% of the total calls to the poison control hotline were from people taking ivermectin - and most of them took the equine variety.

And of course all the above are just the people who had problems with it.  There are undoubtedly many, many times that number who take it and don't get sick enough to call a poison control center or show up at an ER.

 

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1 minute ago, base698 said:

It is impressive they got through the red tape of the FDA to deploy it at all.

With hundreds of thousands of people dead, and thousands dying every day, despite economy-crippling lockdowns, I think it was a good motivator that focused people's minds.

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(edited)
9 minutes ago, billvon said:

Right.  They are not cumulative.  That's why you have to add the 0-4 hospitalizations and the 5-19 hospitalizations.  (There was a typo in my post which has since been fixed; I typed 5-1 instead of 5-17.)

Then why are you adding them?  You could take the harmonic mean.

2/(1/1.3)+(1/2.9) which gets the value they show, ~1.9 when selecting all under 18.

 

Edited by base698

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1 hour ago, kallend said:

They're dying to "own the Libs".

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/21/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

 

I see that Florida and Texas continue to account for about 1/3 of ongoing US covid19 deaths.

Hi John,

Re:  They're dying to "own the Libs".

The only thing they are going to own is a very small, rectangular patch of grass.

Jerry Baumchen

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1 minute ago, base698 said:

Then why are you adding them? 

I see what you mean.  Yeah, to do that accurately you'd have to get the total number of kids in the US from age 0-4 and use the first data point, then get the total number from 5-17 and use the second data point.

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11 minutes ago, olofscience said:

This statement does not make any sense. Covid-19 vaccines are vaccines

Vaccines are really old using actual live virus. Despite mechanics of it presenting an antigen it's different enough I'd argue for a new word.

 

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

I see what you mean.  Yeah, to do that accurately you'd have to get the total number of kids in the US from age 0-4 and use the first data point, then get the total number from 5-17 and use the second data point.

Harmonic mean!  It's always exciting to find uses for that in real life.  Now when my kid yells at me about what this math is for I can tell him it's for arguing on dz.com.

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1 minute ago, base698 said:

Vaccines are really old using actual live virus. Despite mechanics of it presenting an antigen it's different enough I'd argue for a new word.

That's like saying "the definition of a car is a diesel". Some vaccines use live virus, but the definition of vaccine is:

image.png.0d5e8fe00805177d0ade49a58fe922ac.png

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18 minutes ago, olofscience said:

That's like saying "the definition of a car is a diesel". Some vaccines use live virus, but the definition of vaccine is:

image.png.0d5e8fe00805177d0ade49a58fe922ac.png

This is a web archive snapshot for vaccine from 2016:

 a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular disease

https://archive.is/zrsMV

 

 

 

 

 

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(edited)
18 minutes ago, base698 said:

This is a web archive snapshot for vaccine from 2016:

 a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular disease

https://archive.is/zrsMV

Why does it need to be 2016? Do you think there's a conspiracy to change the definition?

Oxford dictionary snapshot from 2014: https://web.archive.org/web/20141018010428/https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/vaccine

Edit: yes I know that's the learner's version, couldn't find the full version and I don't really have a paper one readily on hand. But this link actually explains: https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/the-origin-of-the-word-vaccine/

Quote

Almost a century after Jenner developed his technique, in 1885, the great Louis Pasteur of Paris tested what he called a “rabies vaccine,” even though the parlance of the time was such that “vaccine” or “vaccination” specifically meant administering cowpox pus into a human being in order to prevent that person from contracting smallpox. In fact, Pasteur actually produced a rabies antitoxin, which served as an antidote once someone contracted rabies. Nevertheless, he appropriated the word vaccine, permanently stretching its meaning beyond its Latin word associations with cows and cowpox virus.

 

Edited by olofscience

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1 hour ago, billvon said:

Then the pandemic could come roaring back, with the associated shutdowns and societal harm.  And this time it could kill ~30% of humanity, as happened during the Black Plague, instead of the .04% or so that the existing strains have killed so far.

One simply needs to remember that the closely related SARS-CoV-1 virus has a death rate of 11% but is far less contagious. The virus could be far worse than it currently is. As inconvenient as the past 18 months have been it could be and still could become far worse. A lot of us live in crowded cities and we travel a lot. Our complex bodies have been vulnerable in the past and certainly will be again. Thankfully we have prevention and treatment regimes that help. People like to compare the death toll to the 1919 flu epidemic. We did not have ventilators in 1919, without them and our ICUs we would have multiplied that amount of dying.  For the life of me I just can not understand the current crop of anti-vaxxers. It is almost as though they believe that the herd needs thinning and they want to help the process along.

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Words from Dr. Rick Boyte, palliative care doc in Mississippi:

"When you choose to remain unvaccinated, you are needlessly risking more than your own life — the people dying in Mississippi could be your loved ones, your neighbors or someone you’ll never know. It is not honorable to invite others to die for your personal opinion or beliefs.

"Heroism is risking your life for the sake of others; there is no heroism in risking the lives of others for the sake of self. People are being infected because of recklessness — their own, or someone else’s. I realize that for those who have chosen to remain unvaccinated, reversing that decision will be difficult. It is unfortunate that this stand has become inseparable from personal identity.

"Please, do not mistake this for a cause worthy of death. Trust that the vaccines are as safe as possible and that they work. Taking the vaccine during the pandemic is as heroic as donating blood during a natural disaster — and it has potentially a much larger impact on saving lives."

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2 hours ago, olofscience said:

Nevertheless, he appropriated the word vaccine, permanently stretching its meaning beyond its Latin word associations with cows and cowpox virus.

Yep.  The original "vaccinations" were actually variolations, where a small infection with the actual pathogen (smallpox) would be induced (usually topically) and the local immune reaction would then build immunologic memory.  They tried to find patients with a mild case, then would collect pus from their pustules, scratch the skin of the patient and rub the pus into the scratches.  If the patient then developed pustules in the same area, and then recovered, then it would be considered successful.

Needless to say there were some downsides to this*.  Then Jenner discovered that cowpox also conferred immunity to smallpox, and was much more mild in humans to boot.  So they started infecting people directly with cowpox, which Jenner named Variolae vaccinae.   He maintained cultures of cowpox with which to prepare infections.  Years later someone discovered that the cultures he was maintaining were no longer cowpox, but were a slightly different virus that still worked to provoke smallpox immunity.  So they named the new virus vaccinia, and used the term "vaccine" to describe its use as a preventative.

Thus if you talked to someone in the early 1800's, the term "vaccine" specifically meant a preparation of cowpox-like viruses for the purpose of causing an infection in people and generating immunity.

(* - One downside is that they could not safely/effectively preserve the vaccines, so they would sometimes used "living carriers" - often orphan children - to pass it on.  They'd infect the child, then bring the child with them.  When they got to the patient they'd cut a pustule open, make a cut on the patient's arm, and make skin to skin contact to transfer the smallpox, cowpox or vaccinia infection.  On occasion the orphan would become very sick and/or die from the poorly prepared inoculation, and on occasion the orphan would pass on other things as well, like syphilis.)

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Hi folks,

The insanity is spreading; come on Darwin:  The meeting was postponed officials said for safety reasons after the crowd banged on doors and shouted at police.

Anti-mask protest forces Idaho school board to cancel meeting to plan reopening - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I guess that if the anti-vax/anti-mask people keep dieing at the rate they do currently, we will reach herd immunity soon.  Hmmm, OK with me.

 

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6 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

The insanity is spreading; come on Darwin:  The meeting was postponed officials said for safety reasons after the crowd banged on doors and shouted at police.

Anti-mask protest forces Idaho school board to cancel meeting to plan reopening - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I guess that if the anti-vax/anti-mask people keep dieing at the rate they do currently, we will reach herd immunity soon.  Hmmm, OK with me.

 

That's happening more and more.


The anti-mask, anti-vax people are the same sort that attacked the Capitol on Jan 6.

Many are the same people. The exact same people. 

I've linked this before. The Reddit sub, the Herman Cain Awards:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/new/

 

They are removing themselves from the gene pool at an alarming rate.

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28 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

That's happening more and more.


The anti-mask, anti-vax people are the same sort that attacked the Capitol on Jan 6.

Many are the same people. The exact same people. 

I've linked this before. The Reddit sub, the Herman Cain Awards:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/new/

 

They are removing themselves from the gene pool at an alarming rate.

The numbers are pretty staggering, but for every Herman Cain recipient how many people have a shitty couple of days and then walk away telling their buddies that it wasn’t that bad?

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8 minutes ago, lippy said:

The numbers are pretty staggering, but for every Herman Cain recipient how many people have a shitty couple of days and then walk away telling their buddies that it wasn’t that bad?

Good question. No clue. There's nothing scientific or anything about them. It's mostly people searching around for them. It seems like there are a lot of evangelicals earning them, but one common search term is 'prayer warriors'. While that tends to reveal a lot of potential awardees, it also biases the results toward the type of idiot who calls on 'prayer warriors' (evangelicals). 

The HCAs also have a category for 'redemption', where the people have a serious case, survive and go on to encourage people to get vaccinated.

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1 hour ago, lippy said:

The numbers are pretty staggering, but for every Herman Cain recipient how many people have a shitty couple of days and then walk away telling their buddies that it wasn’t that bad?

You are totally correct. Your free jump is hereby reinstated.

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