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gowlerk

covid-19

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8 hours ago, billeisele said:

A six minute listen from a practicing physician specially trained in immunology and inflammation regulation. He refutes many common beliefs about managing COVID. 

 

There are charlatans in every profession.  You appear to have found one.

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8 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Do you believe him?

Jerry Baumchen

Hey Jerry - It's interesting info. There are a couple informative posts below mine that provide quality info on N95s and discuss/refute his claims. Education is a good thing. 
The mask info is especially helpful. The two problems I see with masks is how they are worn (incorrectly), and the N95s with exhaust ports.
I've always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts.

This guy is obviously passionate about what he believes. Some of it is correct, some of it is not. If there was full disclosure and more clarity from "our leaders" it would help to manage COVID, and it would lessen the believability of these type folks. There are plenty of folks that are confused by the differing opinions and will easily point to this type passionate speech as accurate.

One specific point is disclosure of the data on side effects from the vaccine. Lack of easy access to that data can lead some to believe it's being purposefully hidden. It would also be helpful to have easy access to the list of pre-existing conditions that could make taking the vaccine risky. People are scared of COVID and some are scared of the vaccine. The lack of a quality consistent message, and easy access to data doesn't help that. 

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3 minutes ago, billeisele said:

I've always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts.

This guy is obviously passionate about what he believes. Some of it is correct, some of it is not. If there was full disclosure and more clarity from "our leaders" it would help to manage COVID, and it would lessen the believability of these type folks.

How specifically do you think there has been a lack of consistent and quality info from actual scientific leaders on Covid?

Quote

There are plenty of folks that are confused by the differing opinions and will easily point to this type passionate speech as accurate.

Apart from banning republican congressmen from opening their mouths what exactly can you do to stop confusing, differing opinions from being spread?

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The hotshot swooper who tells newbies to downsize aggressively and that speed is their friend is probably a licensed current skydiver. And yes, your flare can be improved by additional speed; it’s physics. 
But do you listen to him (it’s just about always a him), and recommend him to other newbies?

There are about a million licensed practicing physicians in the US. They probably don’t all say exactly the same thing, but if 999,000 of them are saying one thing, and 1000 are saying something else, consider the odds  

Wendy P. 

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59 minutes ago, jakee said:

How specifically do you think there has been a lack of consistent and quality info from actual scientific leaders on Covid?

Apart from banning republican congressmen from opening their mouths what exactly can you do to stop confusing, differing opinions from being spread?

He didn't say "scientific leaders" he said "the government and so called experts". The previous incumbent of the WH was not terribly accurate when it came to scientific advice. I'm still suffering from my last bout of windmill cancer.

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57 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

He didn't say "scientific leaders" he said "the government and so called experts". The previous incumbent of the WH was not terribly accurate when it came to scientific advice. I'm still suffering from my last bout of windmill cancer.

Yes, "so called experts". The guy who'd rather listen to a random GP in a PTA meeting than a panel of experts who've spent their entire working careers in epidemiology is moaning that there's no consistent guidance. The guy who's actively spreading misinformation is complaining about the prevalence of conflicting information.

It's exactly the same right wing playbook as election security - spend a year baselessly scaremongering about the official line then claim there must be something inherently wrong with the official line because people no longer trust it.

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11 hours ago, billeisele said:

A six minute listen from a practicing physician specially trained in immunology and inflammation regulation. He refutes many common beliefs about managing COVID. 

- some of the CDC recommendations are contrary to the scientific evidence, some of the studies providing that info were sponsored by the CDC

- you can't make respiratory viruses go away, they circulate all year long, they can not be filtered out, COVID has animal reservoirs so it can't be eliminated like smallpox

...

Marjorie Taylor Greene Suspended From Twitter After Saying Vaccines Are Failing

quack,quack,quack

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The MD that I am married to strongly recommends mask wearing in any setting that involves close contact with others from outside the household, and vaccination.  She says she will be first in line for a booster if/when they are approved, and that I should be right behind her.   She gets her medical information from medical journals, not from Facebook or YouTube,

I have now gone 19 months without a respiratory infection - the longest I can ever remember,  which I attribute to masking up and social distancing during that time.

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3 hours ago, billeisele said:

Hey Jerry - It's interesting info. There are a couple informative posts below mine that provide quality info on N95s and discuss/refute his claims. Education is a good thing. 
The mask info is especially helpful. The two problems I see with masks is how they are worn (incorrectly), and the N95s with exhaust ports.
I've always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts.

This guy is obviously passionate about what he believes. Some of it is correct, some of it is not. If there was full disclosure and more clarity from "our leaders" it would help to manage COVID, and it would lessen the believability of these type folks. There are plenty of folks that are confused by the differing opinions and will easily point to this type passionate speech as accurate.

One specific point is disclosure of the data on side effects from the vaccine. Lack of easy access to that data can lead some to believe it's being purposefully hidden. It would also be helpful to have easy access to the list of pre-existing conditions that could make taking the vaccine risky. People are scared of COVID and some are scared of the vaccine. The lack of a quality consistent message, and easy access to data doesn't help that. 

There must be something in the latitude you drink. Of course masks worn as chin bra's and those with vents don't work. That's long been known. Clearly the lack of quality and consistent information that is now your concern, most definitely, should be your concern.

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3 hours ago, billeisele said:

I’ve always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts.

The thing is, when there’s something new going on, the best practice will change as knowledge is gained. The people who have a set of ideas don’t have to change with changing knowledge — their ideas are set, and it makes them sound more authoritative if you see the evolution on knowledge as weakness or waffling. 
But it’s not. The willingness to modify your actions based on learning and new data is the sign of confidence in science, rather than opinion. And in scientific matters (individual behavior recommendations in a pandemic are that), listen to science. In specific individual cases, listen to yourself also, but science is more likely to have facts. 
I have an acquaintance with bigtime claustrophobia, who was totally freaked out by a mask. They had food delivered, and went out only as absolutely necessary. They didn’t mask outdoors, even when it was recommended, but they also tried to only go to uncrowded places. 
Wendy P. 

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7 hours ago, Stumpy said:

Unfortunately, the easily led listen to this stuff and share it on the bloody internet. A bachelors degree, even an A-Level in biology will tell you that most of what he said is complete nonsense.

He is not actually easily led. He has already determined the path he wants to follow and he is looking for traces to go down.

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2 hours ago, kallend said:

The MD that I am married to strongly recommends mask wearing in any setting that involves close contact with others from outside the household, and vaccination.  She says she will be first in line for a booster if/when they are approved, and that I should be right behind her.   She gets her medical information from medical journals, not from Facebook or YouTube,

I have now gone 19 months without a respiratory infection - the longest I can ever remember,  which I attribute to masking up and social distancing during that time.

Hi John,

Re:  She gets her medical information from medical journals, not from Facebook or YouTube,

OK, that's it; you need to get rid of that woman.  I mean, we NEED mumbo-jumbo from the internet.  Well, as an alternate, there is the National Enquirer.

You just wait, come the 13th of August, when Trump is back in the White House, he is going to take care of you type of people.

Jerry Baumchen

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5 hours ago, billeisele said:

Hey Jerry - It's interesting info. There are a couple informative posts below mine that provide quality info on N95s and discuss/refute his claims. Education is a good thing. 
The mask info is especially helpful. The two problems I see with masks is how they are worn (incorrectly), and the N95s with exhaust ports.
I've always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts.

This guy is obviously passionate about what he believes. Some of it is correct, some of it is not. If there was full disclosure and more clarity from "our leaders" it would help to manage COVID, and it would lessen the believability of these type folks. There are plenty of folks that are confused by the differing opinions and will easily point to this type passionate speech as accurate.

One specific point is disclosure of the data on side effects from the vaccine. Lack of easy access to that data can lead some to believe it's being purposefully hidden. It would also be helpful to have easy access to the list of pre-existing conditions that could make taking the vaccine risky. People are scared of COVID and some are scared of the vaccine. The lack of a quality consistent message, and easy access to data doesn't help that. 

Hi Bill,

Re:  I've always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts.

We are in new territory; we have not had a pandemic in over 100 yrs.  What is known is changing every day.  This is true for all science.

Do what you can for yourself & your family and hope for the best.  

I hate masks, but I wear them; less now than last month.

Jerry Baumchen

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5 hours ago, billeisele said:

I've always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts

Two things here:

Trump's administration decided early on to downplay the pandemic. They believed the pandemic's effects would hurt Democratic areas more than Republican areas. They figured that the death toll in Republican areas would be less dramatic than the economic toll on Democratic areas. They were more than happy to gamble with your life to try and gain politically. This lead to and continues with staunch Republicans having to downplay the pandemic and overplay the economic toll.

Secondly, experts like Fauci have generally provided quality information based on what was known at the time. This idea that in a constantly changing environment a message has to be consistent to be accurate is the problem. 

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1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Secondly, experts like Fauci have generally provided quality information based on what was known at the time. This idea that in a constantly changing environment a message has to be consistent to be accurate is the problem. 

Exactly. To take a position, then dig in your heels and refuse to change it in light of new information, is not science. It is religion.

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13 hours ago, billeisele said:

One specific point is disclosure of the data on side effects from the vaccine. Lack of easy access to that data can lead some to believe it's being purposefully hidden. It would also be helpful to have easy access to the list of pre-existing conditions that could make taking the vaccine risky. People are scared of COVID and some are scared of the vaccine. The lack of a quality consistent message, and easy access to data doesn't help that. 

The opposite is true.

The VAERS is a database for making public ALL effects of a vaccine.  Anyone can add an effect; anyone can read it.  It is as public as it can get.  In fact that's it's flaw - it is completely open.  People sometimes claim that they got fat, or got bad breath, or their girlfriend broke up with them due to the vaccine.  And their families will often enter a report if they die of heart attack, or a car crash, or cancer, or diabetes.

Which is its problem.  Since vaccinations began, 1500 reports of death have been entered in VAERS, mostly listing the common causes of death (heart disease, cancer, accident, and stroke.)  This is far less than the number of deaths you'd expect if the vaccine was 100% safe.  In other words, if the vaccine was nothing more than saline, you'd expect 650,000 people to die within six months of getting the shot - because about 2.3 million Americans die every year from all causes.  So if half got the saline shot, over six months about 650,000 will die.

So the data could not be easier to access.

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3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

He is not actually easily led. He has already determined the path he wants to follow and he is looking for traces to go down.

Exactly. What will you bet he finds that where religion plays little role in understanding power transmission it plays a big role in other contemplations. 

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13 hours ago, billeisele said:

 

This guy is obviously passionate about what he believes. Some of it is correct, some of it is not. If there was full disclosure and more clarity from "our leaders" it would help to manage COVID, and it would lessen the believability of these type folks. There are plenty of folks that are confused by the differing opinions and will easily point to this type passionate speech as accurate.

 

Anyone who confuses passion with expertise is a fool.

I've often found that the louder they shout, the less reliable the information is.

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(edited)
19 hours ago, Stumpy said:

Unfortunately, the easily led listen to this stuff and share it on the bloody internet. A bachelors degree, even an A-Level in biology will tell you that most of what he said is complete nonsense.

You dont need a degree at all to understand he is a clown. Anyone with half a brain could see that. Also, this dude is another fantastic example of how being an MD doesent mean jack shit. Like literally it means nothing by itself. There are plenty of other 'doctors' that are just as bad as this dude.

 

Edited by Westerly

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18 hours ago, billeisele said:


I've always said that one issue with COVID is the lack of consistent and quality info and guidance from the government and other "so called" experts.

This guy is obviously passionate about what he believes. Some of it is correct, some of it is not. If there was full disclosure and more clarity from "our leaders" it would help to manage COVID, and it would lessen the believability of these type folks. There are plenty of folks that are confused by the differing opinions and will easily point to this type passionate speech as accurate.

One specific point is disclosure of the data on side effects from the vaccine. Lack of easy access to that data can lead some to believe it's being purposefully hidden. It would also be helpful to have easy access to the list of pre-existing conditions that could make taking the vaccine risky. People are scared of COVID and some are scared of the vaccine. The lack of a quality consistent message, and easy access to data doesn't help that. 

It's a sad fact of life that conspiracy ..people are much better at providing catchy, easily digested "information" than science/governments.

This is of course partially due to the fact that science is slowed down by well, the need to backup their claims with actual science, basically.

As to "our leaders" (as in the government), they are politicians, not medical experts. This means that in case of COVID-information they are at best well-informed and well meaning amateurs, not experts. 

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